Warner=Browns SB?

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99rams
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Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:44 pm

Sorry, not here to bash Kurt Warner or the Brownies. I know his comments can be taken out of context even though he did elaborate on his readiness to take any team (even the Browns) to the promised land but this is the same guy who told the Packers he wasn't ready, looked very oridinary in the last game of '98 against the 49ers and literally came out of nowhere to find himself piloting a team built by Vermeil and stacked with Faulk, Bruce, Holt, and the best Oline in Rams history. Yes, Vermeil knew what they had including Trent Green but NO ONE saw Kurt coming.....even Kurt. I love the guy. He got the ring. He took us to the promised land and I hated to see him leave but it did seem a bit disrespectul to Martz and the Warner BROTHERS who helped just a tad. How many times did Tony Horne & Az Hakim set him up inside the opponent's 50? How many bail out floaters to Faulk went to the house? How many 3rd and 15 turned into 1st downs because the Oline held up and he had 3 WR OPEN?? Yeah, Kurt. You would have won a SB in Cleveland....in your dreams.



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sdram
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Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:58 pm

Kurt Warner is a Hall of Fame quarterback and he led 2 teams to 3 Super Bowls. A tremendous gamer who made big plays in big moments. He's a Rams hero. Now Warner taking the Browns to the Super Bowl might be hard to believe, but the Cardinals and Rams weren't exactly NFL juggernauts when he took them to the big game. I'll cut him some slack. :)



99rams
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Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:07 pm

just saying, he's struggling with his love for the one that dumped him. He's obviously tight with the Cards and yeah, during the horrible fumblitis period with the Rams he had to go. Giants didn't keep him long but could the Rams have waited 2 years for his recovery? He will ALWAYS be the Rams savior in St Lou and LA but saying, Rams, meh, it could have easily been Cleveland? Was that necessary?



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69RamFan
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Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:56 pm

Sorry 99, but you make is sounds like the RAMs had an O-line as in what the Cowboys have now, no way,,,, :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yes he had OP on the blind side and nice FA vet pick ups,
but Warner took his licks from the rush too,

He got hit plenty of time waiting the last seconds for his WRs to get deep down field right as he release the rock, as he took the hits.

Yes he had some great players around him, but he was great also...

His floaters always hit his target in stride... he didn't have to zip it in there,
his specialty was timing and being accurate. He had a nice touch pass.

Both Bruce and Holt both can tell you, the rock would be were its suppose to be.
The ball would be in the air as they are running their pattern and make their cut and the rock would be on target, running in stride.

And if he had to zip the rock in there, he could do that too, just ask Torry Holt, he would tell you, look at my crooked fingers...

A lot of QBs in the league have strong arms, but couldn't hit the side of a barn.

He is a HOF, and should of been in on the 1st ballot.
He is the first HOF not making on the first ballot with having two league MVP's
and a Super Bowl MVP... Held several league records and playoff records.
and Super Bowl records until Brady just broke his top three passing games.

I have to give 99 some rolling eyes on his view,,,, :roll: :roll: :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol:



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69RamFan
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Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:03 pm

And in 1999 RAMs 0-line was never the best O-line in RAMs history,
You must be a young buck, the best RAMs O-line was in the 70s and 80s

Go to pro football Ref,
and check out the RAMs O-line, in those two era's, they had 4 pro bowlers 0-line both in the 70's and 80's

Jackie Slater would laugh at you from your comment on the O-line,,, :lol: :lol: :lol:



99rams
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Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:08 am

No argument about Warner being a worthy HOFer but we can argue all day about OLines that could run block but not pass protect. I'll go with the line that drove the GSOT, with 2 SB's, 51 TD passes in one year and 2000 + yards years for Marshall Faulk against any line that never won a SB. I don't think anyone's laughing at Orlando Pace or his value. You get all butt hurt when I call out Warner for claiming he would have won that SB on any team even the '99 Browns. Sorry, not buying it.

We never had an Oline like the current Dallas Cowboys and sure, Slater and company were great as were Cowan, Scibelli and company but Warner took his hits primarly due to Martz' scheme not a weak Oline. They could run and pass block and helped drive the greatest offense in NFL history. Oh, hear we go. Now you'll argue with that too. lol



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majik
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Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:51 am

The Rams in the 1997 and 1998 seasons were very much like the Cleveland Browns. Holt was a rookie in 99, Faulk was a Colt in 98, and Bruce had been through a few injury riddled seasons.

Yes the Rams were looking like an improved team in the 99 preseason with newly signed Trent Green, but I don't think we win the SuperBowl if Rodney Harrison doesn't make that cheap shot hit.



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69RamFan
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Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:02 am

The Cards were a laughing stock until Warner got there and took over the team and made them believe they were a great team. So by him making a statement like that, is not so out of line.

I never said that the 1999 RAMs O-line was weak, but they were not the best in RAMs history. You have two RAMs HOF lineman in Tom Mack and Slater from the 70s and 80s with several pro bowlers during that era... The 99 RAMs only had OP and Timmerman making the PB 1 year..

The problem with the RAMs during 70s,80s era, they didn't have a complete team as the 99 RAMs, especially on the O side skill positions... but they still made it to the SB in 79 and made the playoffs 14 years in those two decades.

The RAMs had one of the best lines on both sides of the ball during those eras.
They were the main force that got the RAMs into the playoffs year after year.

During the 70/80s era, the league was more balance with great teams.

During 99 to 2001 seasons, it was the RAMs O scheme caught the rest of the leagues defense off guard...

Then owner/GF was having a yard sale on the team after Rosenbloom passed away.

If the RAMs FO would of paid Eric Dickerson, we would of had a great team with Jim Everett as the QB, and ED in the backfield and WR/Henry Ellard, but they only got to play that one year.



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CierraRam
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Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:23 am

69RamFan wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:03 pm
And in 1999 RAMs 0-line was never the best O-line in RAMs history,
You must be a young buck, the best RAMs O-line was in the 70s and 80s

Go to pro football Ref,
and check out the RAMs O-line, in those two era's, they had 4 pro bowlers 0-line both in the 70's and 80's

Jackie Slater would laugh at you from your comment on the O-line,,, :lol: :lol: :lol:
While what you are saying is very true... I did notice that from the 80's bunch of Pro Bowlers that there was an enormously high sack rate per pass attempt. Especially with having the Dickerson threat. Okay, on the flip side they had QB's like Kemp and Brock, and Ferragamo really wasnt that good either. So there is that argument to be made that it's the QB as much as the OL. perhaps the design on the passing game too.

Kurt Warner baited the pass rush, Kurt Warner was everything mentioned above... but Kurt did have one annoying penchant..throwing pick 6's at bad times. But on the whole, that whole offensive team was just a once in generation collection of talent in the F/A period.



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69RamFan
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Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:22 pm

CierraRam wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:23 am
69RamFan wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:03 pm
And in 1999 RAMs 0-line was never the best O-line in RAMs history,
You must be a young buck, the best RAMs O-line was in the 70s and 80s

Go to pro football Ref,
and check out the RAMs O-line, in those two era's, they had 4 pro bowlers 0-line both in the 70's and 80's

Jackie Slater would laugh at you from your comment on the O-line,,, :lol: :lol: :lol:
While what you are saying is very true... I did notice that from the 80's bunch of Pro Bowlers that there was an enormously high sack rate per pass attempt. Especially with having the Dickerson threat. Okay, on the flip side they had QB's like Kemp and Brock, and Ferragamo really wasnt that good either. So there is that argument to be made that it's the QB as much as the OL. perhaps the design on the passing game too.

Kurt Warner baited the pass rush, Kurt Warner was everything mentioned above... but Kurt did have one annoying penchant..throwing pick 6's at bad times. But on the whole, that whole offensive team was just a once in generation collection of talent in the F/A period.
Yes you're right, but the QBs were Kemp and Brock, :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thank god we did have ED and that O-line to open up holes for him.

But during the decades of the 70s and 80s, except those two years with Kemp and Brock, the zack percentage rate was pretty much at the same level during the GSOT time frame...

The only time I seen the RAMs O-line struggled, in 1985 against the Bears in the playoffs. But once again, we didn't have a QB, and the Bears just had to key on ED.
Plus that was one of the best Defense of all time we were playing.

But I still would take the 70s and 80s O-line as being the Best of RAMs history,
Making the playoff 14 times during that time frame, and it was due to the RAMs O and D lineman.

As I stated prior during those eras, we didn't have outstanding players in the skill position on the offensive side of the ball like the GSOT at one given time.

We were getting there for having outstanding skill players on the O side when we traded for Rookie QB Everett, but then the FO didn't pay ED and we lost him in a trade....

If only the FO would of paid ED, imagine during the 88 and 89 season, we would of had ED, Ellard, Flipper, Everett and our O-line, with Kevin Greene and our 3-4 defense at that time, we would of had a great shot to go to the SB again.

But the owner/GF was just stripping the team away.



Raminec
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Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:48 pm

The whole thought of Kurt Warner somehow being a super bowl winner with the browns is completely stupid. Kurt Warner walked into a loaded situation with the Rams in 99. Trent Green would have kept Warner on the bench forever if he was not cheap shoted by Harrison in that pre season game. Warner did a great job once he got in and learned how to play he game but was mistreated by the genius in Martz that created him. Warner was in shambles in NY before AZ picked him up and modified the offense to capitalize on his strengths which were quick read and release routes. Kurt Warner might have been out of the league if Cleveland picked him in that draft and I fully believe Trent Green would have been an HOF QB if not for his injury.



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majik
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Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:26 am

Did Trent Green lead another team to a SB after he left the Rams?

I believe Kurt Warner did.

So if Arizona tailored an offense to fit Kurt's inferior skills versus that of Trent Green, why couldn't Kansas City do the same with HOF Green's superior skills?



99rams
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Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:33 pm

First, Warner over Green but I do think Green would have QB'd the Rams to the playoffs. It was not the team Georgia dismantled after the SB. Starting RT, All Pro DE Kevin Carter, Starting MLB London Fletcher, TE, LB, Az Hakim, Nickel Back Blye, it was a fire sale like no other. Look at the Pats. They jetison a few overpaid 1 year FA and lose a couple role players, maybe a starter. I think Vermeil saw this coming and said, not me. See ya.



Raminec
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Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:46 pm

majik wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:26 am
Did Trent Green lead another team to a SB after he left the Rams?

I believe Kurt Warner did.

So if Arizona tailored an offense to fit Kurt's inferior skills versus that of Trent Green, why couldn't Kansas City do the same with HOF Green's superior skills?
Green wasn't the same QB after the knee injury so it's hard to speculate what he would have done but I would guarantee you that if he did not get injured he would have kept Warner on the bench in St. Louis and we may never have known what Warner would become. Trent Green was a pretty damn good QB playing on one leg but he could have been the league MVP if he stayed healthy in 99. This is coming from a big Kurt Warner fan.



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majik
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Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:51 am

Trent Green wasn't exactly a perennial Pro Bowler when the Rams signed him for the 99 season. A career backup who served as the Redskins starter for the 98 season. Think Matt Cassell the year Brady went down as a comparable.

True Green wasn't quite the same after the injury but it took a few years for Warner to recover from his hand injury probably suffered in the 2001 Conference Championship game against the Eagles. In fact that was a much unreported factor in the Cheatriots theft of the SB that Warner's hand wasn't at 100% for that game.

After his 2002 injured riddled season Martz's ego (he was going to make Bulger the next great QB) prevented Warner from showing the player he still was that the Cardinals got after Warner spent a season as the bridge to Eli during his rookie year with the Giants.



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