PFF: Comparing Goff and Wentz' terrific starts to 2017 season

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Robocop
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Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:04 pm

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/p ... nfl-season

-click the link to check out the graphs

Comparing Goff & Wentz' terrific starts to the 2017 NFL season
BY SAM MONSON • NOV 6, 2017

Jared Goff and Carson Wentz both threw four touchdowns in Week 9 and presided over 51-point performances from their offenses as each young quarterback continues to make huge strides in Year 2 of their NFL careers.

The Eagles under Wentz are 8-1 and arguably the best team in football, while the Rams are 6-2 and atop the NFC West, one game ahead of the Seahawks.

Comparing Jared Goff & Carson Wentz 2017 NFL Season

It’s difficult to overstate just how far each quarterback has come since their rookie seasons. While Wentz started his NFL career on fire, after the first few weeks he struggled badly and ended the season ranked 20th overall by the end of the year, just one spot ahead of Matt Barkley. Goff didn’t see the field until late November, but there were very few signs of life from his first season in the league, albeit in a fairly toxic broader environment before the staff was overhauled in the offseason.

Goff’s situation has been completely refurbished for his second season. The team shipped out Greg Robinson – one of the worst left tackles in football – and signed Andrew Whitworth in free agency, who has just had his fourth game of perfect pass protection already this year. Whitworth has been one of the best pass-blocking tackles in the game for years, and alone represents a huge upgrade in Goff’s situation in the pocket.

This season he has been pressured on 33 percent of his dropbacks, but as a rookie that was up at 44 percent. In addition to Whitworth, the team has also had improved play at center with John Sullivan reviving his NFL career. Goff’s receiving corps has also been completely remodelled, and the scheme under Sean McVay plays more to his strengths, so we are seeing a dramatic improvement in overall play.


Wentz has also benefitted hugely from the scheme being tailored to suit his play. The Eagles run more run-pass option plays than anybody else in the league. They have run almost 100 RPOs (98) over the season, and no other side has more than 65.

The Eagles have been able to simplify the offense and put defenders in a bind while playing to the athleticism of Wentz. Look no further than the first touchdown pass he threw this week against the Broncos. The Eagles packaged a zone run to the left (with Jay Ajayi as the running back), with an option run to the right optioning Von Miller, and then Alshon Jeffery’s little fake screen and ‘go’ route down the sideline, which caught out CB Aqib Talib for the score.

This play can effectively be any one of three distinct things, all of which the defense has to try and account for, but it limits what it asks of Wentz to a couple of simple reads pre and post-snap to make the play. These RPOs have been a huge part of the team’s success and the development at QB of Wentz.

Comparing Jared Goff & Carson Wentz 2017 NFL Season

Within this system, he has been excelling, and is currently our No. 6 ranked QB with an overall PFF grade of 84.4. Wentz has been able to use the scheme to make huge plays all season, and is also sixth in the league in the percentage of passing yards which have come in the air – i.e. before yards after the catch are taken into consideration.

Wentz also has the league’s No. 1 passer rating on third down at 125.1, and has made a sequence of big plays on third and long all season to give him the league’s best PFF grade on third downs.

Both Goff and Wentz have taken huge steps forward in their sophomore seasons, but both also owe a huge amount to the situation improving around them. With both teams enjoying success, that isn’t likely to change, and we will get to witness two players that have every chance to fulfil their potential and reach their as still undefined ceilings.




Robocop
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Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:42 pm

sdram wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:26 pm
Goff compares well against Wentz doesn't he?
NFL Network had a nice graphic up earlier today but can't find it. They have almost identical numbers. The one difference is the TDs. 23-13. But that's cus we got Gurley for the red zone



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Dick84
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Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:52 pm

And Goff is doing all this in his first year with McVay and in this system.

Can't believe how under appreciated that fact is.


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69RamFan
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Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:12 pm

Yes their stats are similar, and Goff has played one game less comparing those stats...

But lets not forget, Wentz is in his second season under the same system/coaching staff...

I still think Goff with one more year under Coach McVay,,,

He will flourish even more...



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SoCalRam78
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Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:40 pm

Both QBs have brilliant offensive minds guiding them


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Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:00 am

This i s just my opinion..... I watch the games of both teams. They are both playing well. The main difference between the two qb's. -it isn't in the stats.
. --- Wentz is the best player on the Eagles. He is the team leader, the MVP, ,whatever you want to call it. For the Eagles, he is Aaron Rodgers. ..They are gonna live and die with him...
Goff isn't quite there yet.



harley01
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Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:49 pm

Did you see the interview with Connor Barwin? He played for Wentz last year and said he was an instant leader. He said Goff has the same quality, but you don;t notice it right off the bat....it's just a little more under the surface.



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Kenny
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Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:28 am

What this tells me is that if Wentz goes down, the Eagles are toast.

If Goff goes down, well, I think I can trust in Mannion to win us a few games.


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Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:26 am

Goff compares well with P. Manning with the way he calls and changes plays at the line of scrimmage. Wentz compares well with Favre with his physicality and dynamism.



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Dick84
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Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:00 am

Rubber Soul wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:26 am
Goff compares well with P. Manning with the way he calls and changes plays at the line of scrimmage. Wentz compares well with Favre with his physicality and dynamism.
Here's what we don't know about a good portion of the plays changed at line... is Goff making the calls?

If they're made with more than 15 seconds left on the clock... McVay can be telling him from the sideline.

That's *not* a shot at Goff. He still has to handle everything and has been awesome at it. It would also just show a smart team, imo.


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Robocop
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Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:23 am

Dick84 wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:00 am
Rubber Soul wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:26 am
Goff compares well with P. Manning with the way he calls and changes plays at the line of scrimmage. Wentz compares well with Favre with his physicality and dynamism.
Here's what we don't know about a good portion of the plays changed at line... is Goff making the calls?

If they're made with more than 15 seconds left on the clock... McVay can be telling him from the sideline.

That's *not* a shot at Goff. He still has to handle everything and has been awesome at it. It would also just show a smart team, imo.
McVay has preached about Goff becoming an extension of the coaching staff since day one. Thats Goff. And those audibles definitely aren't coming until after 15 secs



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69RamFan
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Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:12 pm

Dick84 wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:00 am
Rubber Soul wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:26 am
Goff compares well with P. Manning with the way he calls and changes plays at the line of scrimmage. Wentz compares well with Favre with his physicality and dynamism.
Here's what we don't know about a good portion of the plays changed at line... is Goff making the calls?

If they're made with more than 15 seconds left on the clock... McVay can be telling him from the sideline.

That's *not* a shot at Goff. He still has to handle everything and has been awesome at it. It would also just show a smart team, imo.
He has up to the last 15 seconds in which the play is called in from McVay, then the mic is cut off...

And Goff can change the plays,,

But its more like the initial play, has a 3 to 4 combinations within that one play...

depending on the Defense...

McVay has mention this on a show that I was watching,

he's been coaching to make one play looked the same for other plays...

what makes this remarkable....

Goff is a really smart kid,,,

in his first year with McVay,,,

If you notice, the kid doesn't even use any wristband notes

This Kid is going to be special,,,

Just in his first year with a Good Offensive HC,,,

he has show me a lot already....

Plus he still learning and growing....
Last edited by 69RamFan on Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Dick84
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Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:15 pm

The communication is *cut off* with 15 seconds left, folks.


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69RamFan
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Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:20 pm

Dick84 wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:15 pm
The communication is *cut off* with 15 seconds left, folks.
You're right,,

That's what I meant...



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Dick84
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Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:27 pm

Also... to be VERY clear... I'm not saying Goff isn't changing the plays... I'm saying we don't fully know how the communication goes. You say you do? Fine. I sure don't.


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Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:11 pm

Dick84 wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:27 pm
Also... to be VERY clear... I'm not saying Goff isn't changing the plays... I'm saying we don't fully know how the communication goes. You say you do? Fine. I sure don't.
I'm sure he is getting help with the play calling through the headset...

I was just saying that's how they are working with one play and make it to multiple plays out of one...

So after see the coverage, he could change it..



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Dick84
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Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:14 pm

69RamFan wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:11 pm
Dick84 wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:27 pm
Also... to be VERY clear... I'm not saying Goff isn't changing the plays... I'm saying we don't fully know how the communication goes. You say you do? Fine. I sure don't.
I'm sure he is getting help with the play calling through the headset...

I was just saying that's how they are working with one play and make it to multiple plays out of one...

So after see the coverage, he could change it..
Oh.. .I agree and am sure there are several that he can automatically opt out of.
Also has some RPO plays like the quick slant TD against 49ers.
I'm just saying that McVay could be giving him input until 15.


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rbuck
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Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:21 pm

Agree with your post robocop, but it's worth noting It really isn't fair to consider this J.G.'s second season even though it technically is. He had very little or no time working with the starters during OTA's team practice or the preseason. Seven games into the season they through the guy in with the worst offense team in football. They couldn't run block or pass block or catch a pass. Goff had no chance. G.M.O.



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Dick84
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Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:35 pm

Dick84 wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:14 pm
69RamFan wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:11 pm
Dick84 wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:27 pm
Also... to be VERY clear... I'm not saying Goff isn't changing the plays... I'm saying we don't fully know how the communication goes. You say you do? Fine. I sure don't.
I'm sure he is getting help with the play calling through the headset...

I was just saying that's how they are working with one play and make it to multiple plays out of one...

So after see the coverage, he could change it..
Oh.. .I agree and am sure there are several that he can automatically opt out of.
Also has some RPO plays like the quick slant TD against 49ers.
I'm just saying that McVay could be giving him input until 15.
Wanted to follow up.... the vast majority of changes are done before the 15 second mark. Seems obvious McVay is communicating changes.
Doesn't mean it's easy to hear those changes... make them and apply them.


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Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:52 pm

Dick84 wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:15 pm
The communication is *cut off* with 15 seconds left, folks.
Except in Foxboro :lol: :lol:


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Dick84
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Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:13 pm

Dick84 wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:00 am
Rubber Soul wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:26 am
Goff compares well with P. Manning with the way he calls and changes plays at the line of scrimmage. Wentz compares well with Favre with his physicality and dynamism.
Here's what we don't know about a good portion of the plays changed at line... is Goff making the calls?

If they're made with more than 15 seconds left on the clock... McVay can be telling him from the sideline.

That's *not* a shot at Goff. He still has to handle everything and has been awesome at it. It would also just show a smart team, imo.
Just feel like bumping... :)

I was on this before it became "a thing"..


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69RamFan
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Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:25 pm

As far as I'm concern,,,,

It could be like McVay is playing Madden for all I care until the last 15 seconds... :lol: :lol: :lol:

But Goff still is going threw his progression reads,,, so I still give him some props,,,,, :D :D :D



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Dick84
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Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:32 pm

69RamFan wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:25 pm
As far as I'm concern,,,,

It could be like McVay is playing Madden for all I care until the last 15 seconds... :lol: :lol: :lol:

But Goff still is going threw his progression reads,,, so I still give him some props,,,,, :D :D :D
Exactly!!


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69RamFan
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Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:43 pm

But here is the real story,,,





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