Gurley and Salaries

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CierraRam
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Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:42 am

Another article on CBS and Todd talking about the salries
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/todd ... 0-million/

For the record I agree with Todd. We always hear about RB's being devalued and the general shorter careers that they have. We always hear about DT's cant be making 20+ million a year, because, well, they are a DT. Under the current structure of the salary cap they (Management) have to structure deals with this mindset. So what is the solution??

I have a simple idea as a solution... Set a hard cap at 225 million for every team to start with (Current is 177 and raises marginally every year) This will allow teams to pay their best players, regardless of position. So if your three best players that makes your drink stir, as in the Rams case are a RB, DT, QB then you pay those guys to keep them where they are. And your team viable. You pay them the value TO YOUR TEAM...not because Devonta Freeman only makes 8 million per as the highest paid running back as in under the current system. Or the current top DT makes only 12million. This hard cap gets adjusted upward every three years according to cost of living increases. Or economic growth..whichever better applies.

This solution also brings back a lot of the old time team rivalries because more of the players would be staying with the same team. Remember as Rams fans we hated the Cowboys or 49ers or the Steelers because the rest of the league couldnt beat them. Those teams were the bench marks to beat.

On the negative side this solution would bring about more holdouts. But that's on the players and the choices they make. And I love the rookie pay scale as well. That was a brilliant solution that I think should remain. That allows for the continuance of more money going to the players whoi proved themselves regardless of draft status.



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HighDesertRam
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Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:34 pm

So Gurley thinks its ridiculous NBA players make potentially 80 million but he doesn't think it's ridiculous that he could potentially make 40 million for playing football for 6-8 years ?
The whole damn thing is ridiculous, lower the salary caps !!



harley01
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Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:53 pm

How many players are on an NBA team? Oh yeah, 5 starters. Mic drop.



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69RamFan
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Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:44 pm

I don't think raising the salary cap that high as the OP is stating will work...

The reason why the RBs are devalued, because its a passing league now a days...

second, it comes down to players comparison for contract negotiation....

The only way I see it working,,, is to get rid of the salary cap....
but that's not going to happen, cause the small market team owners won't vote on that happening...

Plus keeping the salary cap, it helps every team and gives them a chance to be competitive every year,,,, in which it brings in more money to each team because of expectation of having a chance to be in the playoffs each year is what the fans want.. instead of being the same few teams...

And its all about making money for the owners...



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CierraRam
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Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:25 am

69RamFan wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:44 pm
I don't think raising the salary cap that high as the OP is stating will work...

The reason why the RBs are devalued, because its a passing league now a days...

second, it comes down to players comparison for contract negotiation....

The only way I see it working,,, is to get rid of the salary cap....
but that's not going to happen, cause the small market team owners won't vote on that happening...

Plus keeping the salary cap, it helps every team and gives them a chance to be competitive every year,,,, in which it brings in more money to each team because of expectation of having a chance to be in the playoffs each year is what the fans want.. instead of being the same few teams...

And its all about making money for the owners...
As I mentioned, if this were done starting next season...the hard cap I suggested would be 225 million for three years. In by doing this it allows a team to look at THEIR PLAYERS who make their systems work. Rather than using another players contract for a basis. So 69, your thinking here appears to be based on the current cap system. Running backs may be devalued overall. But there are exceptions. Levion Bell and Todd Gurley. Maybe Elliot too coming up. Both Bell and Gurley are paramount to their teams offensive success. Both are mid thousand yard rushing threats, and both are threats to get 1000 yards out of the backfield, or catch 80 balls. They are unique and warrant throwing out Devanti Freeman's highest contract for a RB at 8.9 million. In this case, because RB's tend to have shorter effective career's... you give a Gurley 3 years. And the key that this hard cap solution of mine brings is now you can guarantee the money. Where as you couldnt under the current system. Whether you (I) like it or not, under this current system you have to continue to devalue the position regardless if it's a Todd Gurley or Bell. And I promise you that probably the biggest holdup in the Donald talks is the GUARANTEED money.



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69RamFan
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Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:25 am

CierraRam wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:25 am
69RamFan wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:44 pm
I don't think raising the salary cap that high as the OP is stating will work...

The reason why the RBs are devalued, because its a passing league now a days...

second, it comes down to players comparison for contract negotiation....

The only way I see it working,,, is to get rid of the salary cap....
but that's not going to happen, cause the small market team owners won't vote on that happening...

Plus keeping the salary cap, it helps every team and gives them a chance to be competitive every year,,,, in which it brings in more money to each team because of expectation of having a chance to be in the playoffs each year is what the fans want.. instead of being the same few teams...

And its all about making money for the owners...
As I mentioned, if this were done starting next season...the hard cap I suggested would be 225 million for three years. In by doing this it allows a team to look at THEIR PLAYERS who make their systems work. Rather than using another players contract for a basis. So 69, your thinking here appears to be based on the current cap system. Running backs may be devalued overall. But there are exceptions. Levion Bell and Todd Gurley. Maybe Elliot too coming up. Both Bell and Gurley are paramount to their teams offensive success. Both are mid thousand yard rushing threats, and both are threats to get 1000 yards out of the backfield, or catch 80 balls. They are unique and warrant throwing out Devanti Freeman's highest contract for a RB at 8.9 million. In this case, because RB's tend to have shorter effective career's... you give a Gurley 3 years. And the key that this hard cap solution of mine brings is now you can guarantee the money. Where as you couldnt under the current system. Whether you (I) like it or not, under this current system you have to continue to devalue the position regardless if it's a Todd Gurley or Bell. And I promise you that probably the biggest holdup in the Donald talks is the GUARANTEED money.
I wasn't basing it on the current cap....
I'm basing it on the current position a player plays at and percentage rate of the cap....
If the cap goes up by any amount....
The rate of salary goes up by the amount of how much of a percentage the cap went up,,,,,
that is what the players agents are going to be asking for their clients
and try to get them the most money they can....

It might work out as you are stating for the first few years if they did that,,,,
but in the long wrong other players would want that same percentage of raise too.....

If my memory serves me right, I remember the NBA raising the salary cap for that purpose of giving super stars more money.....
But it backed fired on them and the other teams that didnt have those superstars paided out big money for some weak ass players...

So by raising the salary cap by a hugh amount,,, guess what goes up,,, Ticket prices...
Owners are only thinking about one thing,,, Making money...
Agents are thinking about making money too, so they try to get the most for their clients...
Last edited by 69RamFan on Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:43 am, edited 2 times in total.



Clovis
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Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:37 am

RBs are devalued? Yes I think so. It's a passing league nowadays. TG30 is exceptional as is Bell with the steelers. Look at the other 30 teams and tell me who stands out from the others? That's why the RB position has declined in value. Replaceable parts. The dallas cowgirls recent history is a fine example of the value of the RB position.



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CierraRam
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Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:14 am

69RamFan wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:25 am
CierraRam wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:25 am
69RamFan wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:44 pm
I don't think raising the salary cap that high as the OP is stating will work...

The reason why the RBs are devalued, because its a passing league now a days...

second, it comes down to players comparison for contract negotiation....

The only way I see it working,,, is to get rid of the salary cap....
but that's not going to happen, cause the small market team owners won't vote on that happening...

Plus keeping the salary cap, it helps every team and gives them a chance to be competitive every year,,,, in which it brings in more money to each team because of expectation of having a chance to be in the playoffs each year is what the fans want.. instead of being the same few teams...

And its all about making money for the owners...
As I mentioned, if this were done starting next season...the hard cap I suggested would be 225 million for three years. In by doing this it allows a team to look at THEIR PLAYERS who make their systems work. Rather than using another players contract for a basis. So 69, your thinking here appears to be based on the current cap system. Running backs may be devalued overall. But there are exceptions. Levion Bell and Todd Gurley. Maybe Elliot too coming up. Both Bell and Gurley are paramount to their teams offensive success. Both are mid thousand yard rushing threats, and both are threats to get 1000 yards out of the backfield, or catch 80 balls. They are unique and warrant throwing out Devanti Freeman's highest contract for a RB at 8.9 million. In this case, because RB's tend to have shorter effective career's... you give a Gurley 3 years. And the key that this hard cap solution of mine brings is now you can guarantee the money. Where as you couldnt under the current system. Whether you (I) like it or not, under this current system you have to continue to devalue the position regardless if it's a Todd Gurley or Bell. And I promise you that probably the biggest holdup in the Donald talks is the GUARANTEED money.
I wasn't basing it on the current cap....
I'm basing it on the current position a player plays at and percentage rate of the cap....
If the cap goes up by any amount....
The rate of salary goes up by the amount of how much of a percentage the cap went up,,,,,
that is what the players agents are going to be asking for their clients
and try to get them the most money they can....

It might work out as you are stating for the first few years if they did that,,,,
but in the long wrong other players would want that same percentage of raise too.....

If my memory serves me right, I remember the NBA raising the salary cap for that purpose of giving super stars more money.....
But it backed fired on them and the other teams that didnt have those superstars paided out big money for some weak ass players...

So by raising the salary cap by a hugh amount,,, guess what goes up,,, Ticket prices...
Owners are only thinking about one thing,,, Making money...
Agents are thinking about making money too, so they try to get the most for their clients...
In my original post I did state that this solution of mine would increase holdouts as a negative. Another RB would say "well, Bell and Gurley got this amount; so I want this too" And it boils down team management, system, etc as to whether they pay that other RB or let him walk. Bell and Gurley are an exception to the notion that RB's arent as useful anymore. They are bench marks of the best of the best regardless of position. And they should be paid as such, not discriminated against because they are RB's.

Ah yes, the business model... Raise ticket prices. It's always has happened hasnt it? In by doing so only puts more fans, in droves; on the couch watching the games. Whereas if you dont raise the ticket prices... and you keep your star players the fans love.. would put more of the fans in the seats at the stadium. I have a hunch, but dont really know this, but I would say the money would equal out in terms of revenue either way you go. Raising tickets, or not raising while keeping your star players.

As for the NBA... now that falls on management doesnt it? If you dont draft right. Sign the right players in F/A.. then yeah, you get bad contracts for lesser players. Further more it's also on management on the good teams not to pay other lesser players because so and so lesser player got the money from the Nets. (Bad team) Good response 69.. as always a good conversation.



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CierraRam
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Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:26 am

Clovis wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:37 am
RBs are devalued? Yes I think so. It's a passing league nowadays. TG30 is exceptional as is Bell with the steelers. Look at the other 30 teams and tell me who stands out from the others? That's why the RB position has declined in value. Replaceable parts. The dallas cowgirls recent history is a fine example of the value of the RB position.
Prescott and company really struggled offensively without Elliot. Even the vaunted Dallas offensive line didnt pass protect as well because Dallas' running game wasnt viewed as nearly the threat it had been without Elliot. And it wasnt. I cannot imagine what would ahve happened to the Rams offense last season had Gurley missed games. Some systems still rely on the running game for the success of their air attack. The Steelers, Cowboys, Rams, Cardinals (Under Arians, look what happened to their offense once David Johnson went down) are four of those teams. Only problem is... Dallas, being the poorly managed team they are... doesnt have the WR's to keep teams from stacking the box against Elliot this season.



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Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:24 am

As much as I like Todd Gurley I am a little concerned about how vocal he has been about the NFL contract situation. He is under team control for the next two years but he is already hinting that he is unhappy with his contract numbers because they don’t compare to NBA numbers. A great running back can be a valuable asset to a team but we have seen first hand that Todd Gurley cannot do it all without the proper support staff and scheme that allows him the space to be effective. Gurley in year 1 was dynamic but poor offensive line play and a one dimensional offense led teams to stack the box and reduced him to a very average back in year two. The offensive line upgrades along with McVay”s multi dimensional offense gave Gurley an opportunity to shine in year three. If he is not surrounded by complimentary players at the key offensive line positions and skill positions he is not the same player. I understand his desire to have more security for his second contract but if the Rams break the bank to satisfy his demands it could cost them the ability to retain players that collectively make him the great player he is. The Team has a window to be a consistent winner but if they lose sight of the overall team approach they may find that window closing rapidly. Teams that have been able to remain competitive over a long period of time like the Patriots for example do not overpay players for one specific position but rather focus on a team approach. A lot has to do with Brady taking less money to keep the complimentary players around to continue success and the teams ability to develop replacement players for the players that are unwilling to take a smaller contract to help allow the team to retain their complimentary players to continue their success. Love Todd Gurley especially the 2017 version but if he wants NBA money after this season or next when his current contract is complete I wish him the best and hope a young player like Kelley can develop and replace his production so the Rams can move on from him. I think he has some valid points about possibly more guaranteed money in the NFL contracts but kinda wish he would let his agents handle that aspect and just focus on being an integral part of a team that needs all 53 players to be successful in the NFL. He is in a good place with a great head coach that maximizes his potential he needs to just let things take care of itself. Success brings the rewards especially in a market like Los Angeles. No offense Todd but just keep your thoughts about contracts to yourself and your agent and go out and do what you do best play football.



Timking124
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Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:30 am

NFL players should definitely get paid more. NFL profits are double the amount of the NBA but there is only a 70 mil difference in the team cap. Yes, nfl players will never make exactly what NBA players make but NFL players should make alot more.

Also, NFL should remove the franchise tag or at the very least lower the compensation for when a player signs with another team. There is no reason why a player shouldnt be able to go test his value on the open market after his contract expires. Bell's contract expired at the end of the 2016 season but the Steelers still control where he will play going into the 2018 season.


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Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:40 am

Timking124 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:30 am
NFL players should definitely get paid more. NFL profits are double the amount of the NBA but there is only a 70 mil difference in the team cap. Yes, nfl players will never make exactly what NBA players make but NFL players should make alot more.

Also, NFL should remove the franchise tag or at the very least lower the compensation for when a player signs with another team. There is no reason why a player shouldnt be able to go test his value on the open market after his contract expires. Bell's contract expired at the end of the 2016 season but the Steelers still control where he will play going into the 2018 season.
Yeah, I don't know anymore. I can see both sides to this. I think maybe guaranteed salaries would help too. I know that this throws the risk back to the teams but with so many injuries in football, that is where it belongs. Regarding your franchise tag idea- probably not a bad idea. The way it is now, it makes neither side happy. Maybe me, I'm glad that they keep AD. Bit they sit out all camp with little or no penalty then still make a top salary. Player wise, nobody likes feeling trapped in a situation. It doesn't matter how much they pay you.



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Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:45 am

I'm not sure I like our RB becoming the spokesperson for the upcoming strike either......this is what agents and the Players Association spokespeople are for....I wouldn't mind if he just focused on football and winning a Super Bowl....love the guy, understand where he's coming from, just don't want them to be distracted in the locker room under any circumstance.



Ncromwell21
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Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:53 pm

My biggest problem with NFL contracts and what I think Gurley was saying is that the contracts aren't guaranteed, I think this is wrong but if they do go full guaranteed contracts i think giving the owners more ways to punish holdouts should happen (make both sides live up to their agreed to contracts) I also feel with this that season ending injuries and career ending injuries should come off the books as far as salary cap goes (however owners are still required to pay those guaranteed contracts).



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CierraRam
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Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:02 pm

Ncromwell21 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:53 pm
My biggest problem with NFL contracts and what I think Gurley was saying is that the contracts aren't guaranteed, I think this is wrong but if they do go full guaranteed contracts i think giving the owners more ways to punish holdouts should happen (make both sides live up to their agreed to contracts) I also feel with this that season ending injuries and career ending injuries should come off the books as far as salary cap goes (however owners are still required to pay those guaranteed contracts).
Exactly right... as a concession I think the players should void the right to hold out while they are under a current contract. Also, I think a team should be allowed to name up to 3 players they can have exclusive negotiating rights with the first week of free agency --OR-- the right to match another teams offer for named three players during that first week. Something to that effect. I like option 2 better. And I agree with you on season ending injuries thoughts as well. That's fair so long as the injuries are verifiable.



armyram
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Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:12 pm

Raminec wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:24 am
As much as I like Todd Gurley I am a little concerned about how vocal he has been about the NFL contract situation. He is under team control for the next two years but he is already hinting that he is unhappy with his contract numbers because they don’t compare to NBA numbers. A great running back can be a valuable asset to a team but we have seen first hand that Todd Gurley cannot do it all without the proper support staff and scheme that allows him the space to be effective. Gurley in year 1 was dynamic but poor offensive line play and a one dimensional offense led teams to stack the box and reduced him to a very average back in year two. The offensive line upgrades along with McVay”s multi dimensional offense gave Gurley an opportunity to shine in year three. If he is not surrounded by complimentary players at the key offensive line positions and skill positions he is not the same player. I understand his desire to have more security for his second contract but if the Rams break the bank to satisfy his demands it could cost them the ability to retain players that collectively make him the great player he is. The Team has a window to be a consistent winner but if they lose sight of the overall team approach they may find that window closing rapidly. Teams that have been able to remain competitive over a long period of time like the Patriots for example do not overpay players for one specific position but rather focus on a team approach. A lot has to do with Brady taking less money to keep the complimentary players around to continue success and the teams ability to develop replacement players for the players that are unwilling to take a smaller contract to help allow the team to retain their complimentary players to continue their success. Love Todd Gurley especially the 2017 version but if he wants NBA money after this season or next when his current contract is complete I wish him the best and hope a young player like Kelley can develop and replace his production so the Rams can move on from him. I think he has some valid points about possibly more guaranteed money in the NFL contracts but kinda wish he would let his agents handle that aspect and just focus on being an integral part of a team that needs all 53 players to be successful in the NFL. He is in a good place with a great head coach that maximizes his potential he needs to just let things take care of itself. Success brings the rewards especially in a market like Los Angeles. No offense Todd but just keep your thoughts about contracts to yourself and your agent and go out and do what you do best play football.
IMO, Perfectly stated!!!



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Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:42 pm

I'm going to enjoy the next couple of seasons because there will be a strike. It will be ugly. Not sure the average fan can relate to the huge economic numbers these players are wanting. This whole thing is about to blow up when your talking about these insane numbers to play football and other sports, then the college kids wanting to be paid.
This is what worries me about this version of the Rams. Last year it was "Family", this year it's "let's get paid".
Bringing in Brandon Cooks with Todd Gurley? Not sure how this locker room is going to be this year.



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Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:28 pm

Money and player salaries are an endless loop. It's a business. Athletes are only valuable until they are not. Allegiances are rare and temporary. I wouldn't want to be an owner that has to make a living off of their sports team. But then I guess most do not have that problem.



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Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:11 am

Take away the Salary cap and the NFL will end up like the EPL, the same handful of teams with the richest owners winning the big one year after year..

The Draft and the Salary Cap is what makes the NFL a competitive sport amongst ALL of it's competing teams.

Never take that away.



crazy-legs
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Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:44 am

UK Rams Fan wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:11 am
Take away the Salary cap and the NFL will end up like the EPL, the same handful of teams with the richest owners winning the big one year after year..

The Draft and the Salary Cap is what makes the NFL a competitive sport amongst ALL of it's competing teams.

Never take that away.
+1

No CAP no fun....

Last year, before the NBA season started, did anyone here think that it wouldn't be Cleveland vs. GS? There was no reason whatsoever to watch the NBA regular season nor the playoffs. We all knew the results before the first game was tipped off...

MLB - how would you like to be a Reds fan, Pittsburgh etc. You know before the season starts you have no chance in hell. What KC did a few years back was a miracle. You'll see that happen about once every 30 years in baseball - if that....

Hockey and the NFL are the only 2 leagues worth watching IMO...

As far as Gurley goes it's his duty to try to squeeze the Rams for all he can. I know that sucks but that's reality. Signing "team friendly deals" seldom happens anymore if you're a star in this league. After all what's a team friendly deal at that point? Taking 18 million instead of 19 million?

The key to staying successful in the NFL is 3 fold (of course you need good coaching etc. - I'm talking about personnel)...

#1. Having above average drafts so you have players ready to step in for departing players...
#2. Signing quality FA's - it's key not to sign bums who are looking for a final payday to long term contracts...
#3. Knowing who to keep and who to let walk...

Do those 3 things well and you'll be competitive. Act like Cleveland (still can't believe they took Mayfield first) and well - you get what you deserve...


Judge our new coach in his third year. After all our last coach was to game strategy what Yoko Ono was to the Beatles...

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