Todd Gurley suggests “lockout” to get fully guaranteed deals

General Discussion Forum n The Los Angeles Rams
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Raminec
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Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:56 pm

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... deals/amp/

http://www.tmz.com/2018/07/05/todd-gurl ... eed-deals/

Rams might just have to wait out any Gurley extension talks after this season. What’s the point of negotiating until 2020? Nobody is going to sign a contract beyond that date if the players are looking for fully guaranteed money. Could be why Aaron Donald’s contract situation is so complex.



Rammer
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Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:04 am

Egad. This is starting to sound bad. Players really feel like they got screwed and they did. Are we going to have another strike? When the players lost the last round, the balance was tilted too much to the owners. Right now, the team owns the player but the player can be released at any time. That just doesn't sound fair. I think the players should have guaranteed contracts. Then add tougher penalties for holding out when under contract. Someone like Donald should be losing his proportional salary right now after first camp opens. Right now, he really loses very little salary for sitting out. That's not fair either.



rong
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Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:13 am

Nope nope nope.....it will ruin the sport....incentives keep these guys engaged year round to their profession and their bodies....very important



Rammer
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Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:35 am

rong wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:13 am
Nope nope nope.....it will ruin the sport....incentives keep these guys engaged year round to their profession and their bodies....very important
I hear you but other sports survive. ..It isn't like like basketball where Lebron can name his price and wherever he goes becomes a power. Or even in baseball where sometimes they get a star or two just to fill the stands. In most cases, one player just doesn't mean as much in football. As good as he is, Aaron Donald can only command so much..... I feel like if they keep the salary cap, the rookie wage scale, etc. it will all find a balance. Maybe as a give back, do away with the huge signing bonuses. They can only be so much a percent of total...... think the teams would also have to have an easier out for personal conduct detrimental to the team, skipping practices or players not maintaining physical fitness.

Anyway, If it gets like you say above , lazy fat partying players not caring about winning.... smart teams will start shortening contracts and/or their contracts will have huge incentives built into them after a base pay. On the other side though, give players some contract security.

.



rong
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Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:02 am

I don't disagree, the players union may have to bend on playing more games for additional revenues and/or more mandatory time with coaches for development of cheaper/younger players....something the coaches are all complaining about. Bigger rosters may come into play as well for more inexpensive players...these are all things the players union have fought in the past tho.....I still think incentives for really young millionaires to keep their bodies in shape and their minds on their profession are the way to go, particularly in this league



crazy-legs
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Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:07 am

I'd be shocked if the NFL let every contract be guaranteed. Imagine how many bad contracts teams would have on the books if that was the case...


Judge our new coach in his third year. After all our last coach was to game strategy what Yoko Ono was to the Beatles...

Rammer
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Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:04 am

crazy-legs wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:07 am
I'd be shocked if the NFL let every contract be guaranteed. Imagine how many bad contracts teams would have on the books if that was the case...
They already are mostly guaranteed because we pretty much know exactly when someone is going to be on the cutting block anyway. It usually all comes down to the numbers agreed upon when they signed the contract. The signing bonuses and the way the contracts are structured determine the 'true' length and value of the contract. The players know it and the owners know it. A six year deal is really a four year deal.

That's why I am thinking why not just have guaranteed contracts with little or no signing bonus. Same risk for the owners.



Raminec
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Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:14 am

If contracts are fully guaranteed the length of the contracts are going to be shorter. Teams may go longer term for a proven franchise Qb but a running back at age 26 like Gurley will be in 2020 with 5 years wear on his legs will be hard pressed to get more than a two year deal because of the history of declining play at skill positions like running back as they approach age 30 in the NFL. I think this will have a massive effect on the NFL. The effects will impact resigning players from this year forward as no agents will want their star players beyond 2020 without virtually fully guaranteed contracts going forward. I understand the current situation is tilted in the owners favor but I don’t think that this is going to help players like Gurley and Peters who are under team control until 2020 with the 5th year option. Why would a team try to negotiate with them and try to sign a long term deal if they don’t know what the new CBA will bring and why would a player sign beyond 2020 unless the contract was fully guaranteed. The Cousins deal set a preciident. I think teams will be forced to use their Franchise tag on key players going forward until the new CBA and you will see more one year prove it deals and roster churn through the draft. Maybe the Rams should just sit on that extra cap money for the next two seasons and Franchise Donald until this whole thing shakes out. I think it will lead to teams releasing more veteran players and trying to develop youth replacements along with the elimination of long term contracts offers for a lot of players. Teams will give a Cousins type deal to a proven Franchise QB but older players and players with any injury concerns will have a hard time getting more than a 1 year deal because their will be no market for them. This could completely change the NFL as we know it.



rong
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Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:18 am

yup...you're correct on your thinking imo...and you're right, it will change the league as we know it...the product will suffer



Rammer
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Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:28 am

Raminec wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:14 am
If contracts are fully guaranteed the length of the contracts are going to be shorter. Teams may go longer term for a proven franchise Qb but a running back at age 26 like Gurley will be in 2020 with 5 years wear on his legs will be hard pressed to get more than a two year deal because of the history of declining play at skill positions like running back as they approach age 30 in the NFL. I think this will have a massive effect on the NFL. The effects will impact resigning players from this year forward as no agents will want their star players beyond 2020 without virtually fully guaranteed contracts going forward. I understand the current situation is tilted in the owners favor but I don’t think that this is going to help players like Gurley and Peters who are under team control until 2020 with the 5th year option. Why would a team try to negotiate with them and try to sign a long term deal if they don’t know what the new CBA will bring and why would a player sign beyond 2020 unless the contract was fully guaranteed. The Cousins deal set a preciident. I think teams will be forced to use their Franchise tag on key players going forward until the new CBA and you will see more one year prove it deals and roster churn through the draft. Maybe the Rams should just sit on that extra cap money for the next two seasons and Franchise Donald until this whole thing shakes out. I think it will lead to teams releasing more veteran players and trying to develop youth replacements along with the elimination of long term contracts offers for a lot of players. Teams will give a Cousins type deal to a proven Franchise QB but older players and players with any injury concerns will have a hard time getting more than a 1 year deal because their will be no market for them. This could completely change the NFL as we know it.
There is nothing we can do about the interim period between now and 2020. That's already gonna happen until they have a new collective bargaining agreement. All of those other things you said will happen, will probably happen. But how does this completely change the NFL as we know it? and why would it make the product worse? It seems to me like the product is already getting worse.



Timking124
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Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:27 pm

Nfl players are definitely getting the short end of the stick. NFL profits 10+ billion a year but only pays players 15 percent (if that).

My take
- NFL could obviously increase the payroll.

- NFL should also get rid of the franchise tag and/or prevent a team from using it more than one year while also lowering the compensation for signing a player under franchise.

- Drafted rookies contracts should be fully guarenteed at same scale

-NFL vets should be majority guarenteed (at least the first year of the contract) unless the contract specifies and the NFL but allow teams to utilize options (player, team, mutual and partial guarantee after 1st year),

-NFL should allow teams to strech cut 4 players over time like the nba

-NFL could allow teams a pool of dead money that doesn't count against the cap say 20 mil.


Rams fan from Connecticut since 99

Raminec
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Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:39 pm

Rammer wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:28 am
Raminec wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:14 am
If contracts are fully guaranteed the length of the contracts are going to be shorter. Teams may go longer term for a proven franchise Qb but a running back at age 26 like Gurley will be in 2020 with 5 years wear on his legs will be hard pressed to get more than a two year deal because of the history of declining play at skill positions like running back as they approach age 30 in the NFL. I think this will have a massive effect on the NFL. The effects will impact resigning players from this year forward as no agents will want their star players beyond 2020 without virtually fully guaranteed contracts going forward. I understand the current situation is tilted in the owners favor but I don’t think that this is going to help players like Gurley and Peters who are under team control until 2020 with the 5th year option. Why would a team try to negotiate with them and try to sign a long term deal if they don’t know what the new CBA will bring and why would a player sign beyond 2020 unless the contract was fully guaranteed. The Cousins deal set a preciident. I think teams will be forced to use their Franchise tag on key players going forward until the new CBA and you will see more one year prove it deals and roster churn through the draft. Maybe the Rams should just sit on that extra cap money for the next two seasons and Franchise Donald until this whole thing shakes out. I think it will lead to teams releasing more veteran players and trying to develop youth replacements along with the elimination of long term contracts offers for a lot of players. Teams will give a Cousins type deal to a proven Franchise QB but older players and players with any injury concerns will have a hard time getting more than a 1 year deal because their will be no market for them. This could completely change the NFL as we know it.
There is nothing we can do about the interim period between now and 2020. That's already gonna happen until they have a new collective bargaining agreement. All of those other things you said will happen, will probably happen. But how does this completely change the NFL as we know it? and why would it make the product worse? It seems to me like the product is already getting worse.
I agree nothing can be done now but also understand why both the players, their agents and the teams could have a tough time structuring a contract right now if there is a possibility the CBA could change things significantly in 2020 (ie.fully guranteed contracts). I think it changes the league because teams will most likely be very carefull as to the length of a guranteed contract so there will be more of a focus on building around a select number of core players at key positions on longer term guranteed contracts and many of the other positions on year to year prove it deals. I also think teams will be very selective as to what players they give those long term contracts to as you are not going to take chances with players with an injury history or any red flags. Maybe it will make the players approach the game in a more professional manner but then again once you have that guranteed contract there will be that lost incentive aspect. I just see a league with a lot more roster churning making it more and more difficult for teams to develop units like offensive line that need time together to become successfull. The Quality QB's, DB's, WR,s LT"s and Pass Rushers will be at high demand while other positions might be one year roster churns. I dont see it making RB's like Gurley a lot richer on their second contract because of the history of decline in production for running backs after they have been in the league for 4-5 years. It could be why the Rams are going all in now because who knows what 2020 is going to look like. Can you imagine that big beautiful stadium sitting empty because of a lockout like Gurley alluded to?



toast49
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Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:25 pm

It's already over, new helmet rule. The NFL is over after this year. The NBA is garbage, NFL to follow.



ramsrule57
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Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:35 pm

Rammer wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:35 am
rong wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:13 am
Nope nope nope.....it will ruin the sport....incentives keep these guys engaged year round to their profession and their bodies....very important
I hear you but other sports survive. ..It isn't like like basketball where Lebron can name his price and wherever he goes becomes a power. Or even in baseball where sometimes they get a star or two just to fill the stands. In most cases, one player just doesn't mean as much in football. As good as he is, Aaron Donald can only command so much..... I feel like if they keep the salary cap, the rookie wage scale, etc. it will all find a balance. Maybe as a give back, do away with the huge signing bonuses. They can only be so much a percent of total...... think the teams would also have to have an easier out for personal conduct detrimental to the team, skipping practices or players not maintaining physical fitness.

Anyway, If it gets like you say above , lazy fat partying players not caring about winning.... smart teams will start shortening contracts and/or their contracts will have huge incentives built into them after a base pay. On the other side though, give players some contract security.

.Bad for a sport that has as many i njuries as the NFL. I remember the Dodgers had a pitcher they signed for 10/11 million a year for 5 years and he was always injured and only pitched a couple games total, had surgery and they had to pay him his whole contract. RFight now players with minor injuries will suck ikt up and play so they don't lose their jobs, giving them 3/4/5 year deals with all guranteed and they will be sitting out over every little thing. And how will that work with the cap? Will those contracts count against the cap when the player can't play. But there will be either a strike or lockout. Scab football is coming in 2021.



ramsrule57
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Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:36 pm

ramsrule57 wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:35 pm
Rammer wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:35 am
rong wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:13 am
Nope nope nope.....it will ruin the sport....incentives keep these guys engaged year round to their profession and their bodies....very important
I hear you but other sports survive. ..It isn't like like basketball where Lebron can name his price and wherever he goes becomes a power. Or even in baseball where sometimes they get a star or two just to fill the stands. In most cases, one player just doesn't mean as much in football. As good as he is, Aaron Donald can only command so much..... I feel like if they keep the salary cap, the rookie wage scale, etc. it will all find a balance. Maybe as a give back, do away with the huge signing bonuses. They can only be so much a percent of total...... think the teams would also have to have an easier out for personal conduct detrimental to the team, skipping practices or players not maintaining physical fitness.

Anyway, If it gets like you say above , lazy fat partying players not caring about winning.... smart teams will start shortening contracts and/or their contracts will have huge incentives built into them after a base pay. On the other side though, give players some contract security.

.Bad for a sport that has as many i njuries as the NFL. I remember the Dodgers had a pitcher they signed for 10/11 million a year for 5 years and he was always injured and only pitched a couple games total, had surgery and they had to pay him his whole contract. RFight now players with minor injuries will suck ikt up and play so they don't lose their jobs, giving them 3/4/5 year deals with all guranteed and they will be sitting out over every little thing. And how will that work with the cap? Will those contracts count against the cap when the player can't play. But there will be either a strike or lockout. Scab football is coming in 2021.
And they do have security, it's guaranteed bonuses .



sanbagger
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Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:15 pm

They could keep the system in place only add buy out clauses that don't count against the cap...kinda like baseball.

Everybody wins.....players get money and can become free agents and owners can keep their payroll under the cap.



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harkin
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Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:12 pm

Whatever it takes to keep the level of parity we have now.

Last thing the NFL needs is to have 4-5 teams that are near the top every year and the rest a bunch of stiffs, like the NBA.



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D-GenerationX
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Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:39 am

Raminec wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:14 am
If contracts are fully guaranteed the length of the contracts are going to be shorter. Teams may go longer term for a proven franchise Qb but a running back at age 26 like Gurley will be in 2020 with 5 years wear on his legs will be hard pressed to get more than a two year deal because of the history of declining play at skill positions like running back as they approach age 30 in the NFL. I think this will have a massive effect on the NFL. The effects will impact resigning players from this year forward as no agents will want their star players beyond 2020 without virtually fully guaranteed contracts going forward. I understand the current situation is tilted in the owners favor but I don’t think that this is going to help players like Gurley and Peters who are under team control until 2020 with the 5th year option. Why would a team try to negotiate with them and try to sign a long term deal if they don’t know what the new CBA will bring and why would a player sign beyond 2020 unless the contract was fully guaranteed. The Cousins deal set a preciident. I think teams will be forced to use their Franchise tag on key players going forward until the new CBA and you will see more one year prove it deals and roster churn through the draft. Maybe the Rams should just sit on that extra cap money for the next two seasons and Franchise Donald until this whole thing shakes out. I think it will lead to teams releasing more veteran players and trying to develop youth replacements along with the elimination of long term contracts offers for a lot of players. Teams will give a Cousins type deal to a proven Franchise QB but older players and players with any injury concerns will have a hard time getting more than a 1 year deal because their will be no market for them. This could completely change the NFL as we know it.
Great post. Pretty much nailed.



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