The Case for Jared Goff

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Mike Schad 1st Rd
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Sat May 23, 2020 3:34 pm

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zackn wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:20 pm
All I am saying is that even with a bad line Goff should not have regressed that much.
First we pretend to know how Jackson etc. would play behind injury damaged OLs. They actually play behind top OLs but let's erase that fact and pretend it's all entirely on the qb.

Next we pretend to know exactly how much a qb "ought to" regress behind a shaky and injury damaged OL.

That's right up there with the myth that good qbs NEVER regress behind shaky and injury damaged OLs. Only the bad ones do apparently (according to the myth).

Meanwhile as the OL settled down toward the end of the 2019 season passing performance went (predictably) up.

I will look at some facts. The most infamous Rams OL injury wreck was in 2007 (though were those then too who tried to put it all on the qb).

So here's Bulger in 2006 v. 2007, and Goff in 2018 v. 2019.

BULGER 2006: 62.9% completions, 4.1% TD percent, 1.4% Int percent, 7.3 YPA, qb rating of 92.9
BULGER 2007: 58.5% completions, 2.9% TD percent, 4.0% Int percent, 6.3 YPA, qb rating of 70.3

GOFF 2018: 64.9% completions, 5.7% TD percent, 2.1% Int percent, 8.4 YPA, qb rating of 101.1
GOFF 2019: 62.9% completions, 3.5% TD percent, 2.6% Int percent, 7.4 YPA, qb rating of 86.5

Adjusting for the difference in eras, it does not look all that different to me. Though Goff's increase in INTs was minimal (0.5% increase).
STOP MAKING SENSE!!!!!!!



brasilrams
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Sat May 23, 2020 7:46 pm

zackn wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:20 pm
All I am saying is that even with a bad line Goff should not have regressed that much.
First we pretend to know how Jackson etc. would play behind injury damaged OLs. They actually play behind top OLs but let's erase that fact and pretend it's all entirely on the qb.

Next we pretend to know exactly how much a qb "ought to" regress behind a shaky and injury damaged OL.

That's right up there with the myth that good qbs NEVER regress behind shaky and injury damaged OLs. Only the bad ones do apparently (according to the myth).

Meanwhile as the OL settled down toward the end of the 2019 season passing performance went (predictably) up.

I will look at some facts. The most infamous Rams OL injury wreck was in 2007 (though were those then too who tried to put it all on the qb).

So here's Bulger in 2006 v. 2007, and Goff in 2018 v. 2019.

BULGER 2006: 62.9% completions, 4.1% TD percent, 1.4% Int percent, 7.3 YPA, qb rating of 92.9
BULGER 2007: 58.5% completions, 2.9% TD percent, 4.0% Int percent, 6.3 YPA, qb rating of 70.3

GOFF 2018: 64.9% completions, 5.7% TD percent, 2.1% Int percent, 8.4 YPA, qb rating of 101.1
GOFF 2019: 62.9% completions, 3.5% TD percent, 2.6% Int percent, 7.4 YPA, qb rating of 86.5

Adjusting for the difference in eras, it does not look all that different to me. Though Goff's increase in INTs was minimal (0.5% increase).
Well, it is pretty obvious jackson and mobile qbs would not regress that much if they are playing behind a bad o line because they can scramble and create plays with their legs . Isn't that a bit obvious ?

Second , NO , I don't pretend to know how much EXACTLY a qb should regress behind a bad oline , every qb is different and has a different skill set and style of play . All I said is that in MY OPINION , JG regressed TOO much , and even the man himself SAID that he didn't play well and he could have done a much better job. Your opinion is different than mine and different than JG's himself ? Be my guess .

And stop lying , again . I never said a good QB won't regress behind a bad line . I said there are TONS of examples of GOOD / DECENT qb play BEHIND bad lines , just to show you that even when the line is bad the QB CAN ACTUALLY maintain some of his performance even if not exactly the same , but something decent and sorry but , 22 tds with 21 turnovers is not DECENT by most people's standards . I never said a good qb won't regress. He can and should regress , but not that much - MY opinion - . You don't like it or have a different one ? I don't care and I won't change mine .

Another thing , you are comparing JG do Bulger , really ? WOW . I thought JG was elite and franchise QB ? You are comparing him to BULGER , thank you for making my point that JG is an average QB .

BTW - Not sure where you are getting your stats from .

JG 2018 - 32 TDS and 12 picks
JG 2019 - 22 TDS and 16 picks.

How is that the increase in picks is 0.5 % from 18 to 19 ? what kind of math is that ?
From 12 to 16 , by my math we are talking 33 % increase in the number of PICKS .
And when comparing TDS , in 2018 he threw about 43 % more tds when compared to 2019 .

AND stats don't tell the whole story , eye test is important too . Those 16 picks in 2019 should have been WAY more , easily 30 . I can't even count how many dropped picks by defenders happened in that season , picks so easy that defenders RARELY drop them but JG had that going for him in that last season . He got really LUCKY with some of those horrible passes . REALLY . Could easily be 30 picks . EASILY .

I will keep saying JG is average until I see that he can carry a team without having the BEST OFFENSIVE player by his side and the number 1 RATED o line . Because yes , the rams o line were not just decent in 17-18 like you said. They were ranked 1 and 2 , respectively ( or 2 and 1 , something like that ) . He also had that monster called todd gurley doing his thing . Gurley in his prime ( 17-18 ) was the most dangerous weapon in the NFL . I wouldn't trade any PLAYER for that gurley . Guy could do it all , having gurley as a weapon was almost like playing in cheat mode , that is how good he was in 17-18 ( most of 18 anyway , before the injury). So , when you have ALL that going for you , it is kinda easy to play well , he had his merits of course , I am not denying that BUT you put any MEDIOCRE qb in that position ( great coach , best offensive player in the league and best o line in the league ) and MOST of them would likely succeed and have good numbers. But look what happened when the o line got bad and he didn't " have " gurley anymore . 21 turnovers and no playoffs .
Last edited by brasilrams on Sat May 23, 2020 8:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.



brasilrams
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Sat May 23, 2020 7:47 pm

Mike Schad 1st Rd wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:34 pm
zackn wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:20 pm
All I am saying is that even with a bad line Goff should not have regressed that much.
First we pretend to know how Jackson etc. would play behind injury damaged OLs. They actually play behind top OLs but let's erase that fact and pretend it's all entirely on the qb.

Next we pretend to know exactly how much a qb "ought to" regress behind a shaky and injury damaged OL.

That's right up there with the myth that good qbs NEVER regress behind shaky and injury damaged OLs. Only the bad ones do apparently (according to the myth).

Meanwhile as the OL settled down toward the end of the 2019 season passing performance went (predictably) up.

I will look at some facts. The most infamous Rams OL injury wreck was in 2007 (though were those then too who tried to put it all on the qb).

So here's Bulger in 2006 v. 2007, and Goff in 2018 v. 2019.

BULGER 2006: 62.9% completions, 4.1% TD percent, 1.4% Int percent, 7.3 YPA, qb rating of 92.9
BULGER 2007: 58.5% completions, 2.9% TD percent, 4.0% Int percent, 6.3 YPA, qb rating of 70.3

GOFF 2018: 64.9% completions, 5.7% TD percent, 2.1% Int percent, 8.4 YPA, qb rating of 101.1
GOFF 2019: 62.9% completions, 3.5% TD percent, 2.6% Int percent, 7.4 YPA, qb rating of 86.5

Adjusting for the difference in eras, it does not look all that different to me. Though Goff's increase in INTs was minimal (0.5% increase).
STOP MAKING SENSE!!!!!!!
sorry , but he is not .



armyram
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Sat May 23, 2020 10:02 pm

I’ve sat back aand read all of these posts and almost every one of them has a valid point except if you’re calling Goff elite. If he was, this debate wouldn’t be happening. He has thrown up some statistics but he isn’t clutch and as for now hasn’t carried the team. IMO, the team has carried him. That being said, all we can do is hope the season starts on time and we can see exactly what we have in our “franchise “ QB. We all hope he does well but hope isn’t guaranteed



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Sat May 23, 2020 11:09 pm

brasilrams wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:46 pm

Another thing , you are comparing JG do Bulger , really ? WOW . I thought JG was elite and franchise QB ? You are comparing him to BULGER , thank you for making my point that JG is an average QB .

BTW - Not sure where you are getting your stats from .

JG 2018 - 32 TDS and 12 picks
JG 2019 - 22 TDS and 16 picks.

How is that the increase in picks is 0.5 % from 18 to 19 ? what kind of math is that ?
From 12 to 16 , by my math we are talking 33 % increase in the number of PICKS .
He's not referring to *number* of interceptions, he's referring to *percentage* of passes intercepted. In 2019, with a much less effective running game supporting him weakly, Jared Goff was forced to throw more passes on offense.

Apparently you weren't a Rams fan from '02-06, since you're unaware that during those five seasons, when he had decent offensive support, Marc Bulger was a good-to-very-good QB for our team.

Or possibly you have negative feelings for Bulger because you blame him for Kurt Warner collapsing into ineffectiveness in '02 and not recovering close to fully until '08, as many fans of the Good Guys clearly do.

In terms of the Rams' all-time top QBs, Bulger is somewhere in the 5th-7th range, I'd venture... :) 8-) :idea:

ram pathos...

--The Commish


UHURA: "Do you think that's all they ever had?"
KIRK: "No, but it's all they had left."

brasilrams
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Sat May 23, 2020 11:29 pm

Commish wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:09 pm
brasilrams wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:46 pm

Another thing , you are comparing JG do Bulger , really ? WOW . I thought JG was elite and franchise QB ? You are comparing him to BULGER , thank you for making my point that JG is an average QB .

BTW - Not sure where you are getting your stats from .

JG 2018 - 32 TDS and 12 picks
JG 2019 - 22 TDS and 16 picks.

How is that the increase in picks is 0.5 % from 18 to 19 ? what kind of math is that ?
From 12 to 16 , by my math we are talking 33 % increase in the number of PICKS .
He's not referring to *number* of interceptions, he's referring to *percentage* of passes intercepted. In 2019, with a much less effective running game supporting him weakly, Jared Goff was forced to throw more passes on offense.

Apparently you weren't a Rams fan from '02-06, since you're unaware that during those five seasons, when he had decent offensive support, Marc Bulger was a good-to-very-good QB for our team.

Or possibly you have negative feelings for Bulger because you blame him for Kurt Warner collapsing into ineffectiveness in '02 and not recovering close to fully until '08, as many fans of the Good Guys clearly do.

In terms of the Rams' all-time top QBs, Bulger is somewhere in the 5th-7th range, I'd venture... :) 8-) :idea:

ram pathos...

--The Commish
Not a huge fan of bulger , he had 3-4 good seasons and that is it . Guy was made of glass and had no durability .

About the interceptions , what it matters , imo , is how many picks he had and it was 16 . He had a pick for every damn game he played . EVERY SINGLE ONE . And by your logic , since he was throwing the football a lot more because of the lack of run game ( and that is TRUE , passes attempted were a much higher number in 19 ) , and if that is the reason for the increased interceptions , why didn't the touchdowns increase with it, as well ? But no , they actually went down by 43 % . If you have the ball in your hands all the time and this fact is making you throw more picks , it should also make you throw more tds . No ?



brasilrams
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Sat May 23, 2020 11:31 pm

armyram wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:02 pm
I’ve sat back aand read all of these posts and almost every one of them has a valid point except if you’re calling Goff elite. If he was, this debate wouldn’t be happening. He has thrown up some statistics but he isn’t clutch and as for now hasn’t carried the team. IMO, the team has carried him. That being said, all we can do is hope the season starts on time and we can see exactly what we have in our “franchise “ QB. We all hope he does well but hope isn’t guaranteed
solid post as always armyram.



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Sat May 23, 2020 11:57 pm

armyram wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:02 pm
he isn’t clutch and as for now hasn’t carried the team.
Yes he is clutch and has proved it. For example, how many Rams qbs in the super bowl era have won championship games coming from behind? It's 2 and Warner is the other. Though Goff did it on the road.

No one carries a team with OL issues (and running game issues and defense issues) like the 2019 Rams had. Again unless someone can name examples and no one has yet (though there were efforts.)



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Sun May 24, 2020 12:03 am

Commish wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:09 pm
In terms of the Rams' all-time top QBs, Bulger is somewhere in the 5th-7th range, I'd venture... :) 8-) :idea:

--The Commish
Yeah I would put the Rams qbs of the last 45 years in this order.

Warner
Goff
Bulger
...
...
...
Ferragamo
Bradford

Bulger was a good qb for the Rams, until the OL wheels came off, and it was a mess from 2007-2009.

He wasn't bad at all in 2003 and then from 2004-2006 he was top 10 in qb rating and completion percentage all 3 years. The only other qbs who did that all 3 of those years were Manning and Brees.

And as for Goff having the best offensive support in football in 2018, that's just bs. It was good, though that's in large part because they had a good qb and Gurley. That OL got exposed in by the end of 2018---Sullivan and Blythe primarily but also Havenstein. Kupp got hurt and teams showed that if you doubled Woods you could take Cooks out of his game with good coverage. Gurley was not consistently himself at the end of the year either. I don't know where this myth of "the best" and "things being perfect in 2018" come from, but it's not from watching the games.

...
Last edited by zackn on Sun May 24, 2020 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Sun May 24, 2020 12:11 am

Bringing up Bulger’s regression doesn’t help your Goff argument. After Bulger regressed, he never got back to what he used to be. His peak was 2003-2006, and he was a pretty good QB. But that was it. A pretty good QB for 3.5 seasons. Never a superstar.

Goff’s been a pretty good QB for 2 seasons. Never a superstar.

The Rams paying him like he is one is the entire problem. I’d venture to say they will never be able to build a good enough team around to win the NFC West given Goff’s salary and the traded away draft picks.

Bottom line is the Rams have a poorly constructed team. You can’t build a competitive team with 3 franchise tag level guys (Donald, Goff, Ramsey), and the rest of the team filled out with whatever it can afford.



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Sun May 24, 2020 12:20 am

Truth wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:11 am
Bringing up Bulger’s regression doesn’t help your Goff argument. After Bulger regressed, he never got back to what he used to be.
Yeah it does. And here's why. Bulger did not just magically regress, the Rams OL went through 3 successive years of massive injuries. Go back and look how many different starting OL units they fielded in those years. In 2007 they were signing replacements off the street during the season who then had to start because they were replacing the first wave of replacements (who had gotten injured after replacing the injured original starters.)

The whole point of mentioning Bulger at all is because starting in 2007 he played through the worst years of Rams OL injuries we know of (though 2011 and the first half of 2012 come close).

Bulger is an example of what happens to qbs when the wheels come off the OL. That's the entire point.

And even in 2007 there were those who neglected that and put it all on the qb, as improbable as that was. People would list all the OL injuries (and it was a long list) and for some it was like that didn't even factor in--it was all just on the qb. (We got the same "good qbs elevate injury struck OLs" myths back then too.)

I even remember one theory some had was that because he had signed his big 2nd contract he didn't care anymore. And there he was in 2007 playing with cracked ribs behind an injury demolished OL.

....

...



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Sun May 24, 2020 12:35 am

What you fail to comprehend is the wheels are still off the oline. It was ranked 31st last season and you’re bring back the same guys (1 of which is a near 40 year old LT).

I think lot of people would have more confidence in Goff if the Rams had signed guys like Trent Williams, Larry Warford, or a new Center. They didn’t.

The Rams o line didn’t suck in 2019 because they had good players hurt. It sucked because the starters they had sucked, then the backups that came in after the starters got hurt sucked even more. It’s a talent issue here. It’s not a durability issue. Brian Allen sucks at Center. Flat out. So does Blythe. When your Center position is terrible, and your LT should be retired, your line is going to
stink. The most important positions on the o line are C and LT. How do you expect the Rams o line group to be good with such weak links at the key spots?



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Sun May 24, 2020 1:18 am

Truth wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:35 am
What you fail to comprehend is the wheels are still off the oline. It was ranked 31st last season and you’re bring back the same guys (1 of which is a near 40 year old LT).

I think lot of people would have more confidence in Goff if the Rams had signed guys like Trent Williams, Larry Warford, or a new Center. They didn’t.

The Rams o line didn’t suck in 2019 because they had good players hurt. It sucked because the starters they had sucked, then the backups that came in after the starters got hurt sucked even more.
So that's why our team's "O" averaged 29+ points per game over its final five contests, two of them against playoff teams, hmmmm?

To you, that obviously doesn't seem like improvement, but to Sean McVay and his coaching staff, it certainly does.

They're clearly counting on young O-linemen (David Edwards, Bobby Evans, Austin Corbett, Joseph Noteboom, etc.) to perform more effectively due to the playing experience they gained last year, and on the Rams' offensive line having fewer injuries than in 2019--you're apparently counting on the opposite.

So I'm just trying to figure out who knows more about the Good Guys' playing personnel and NFL offensive football, you or McVay and his staff.

Undoubtedly, three years ago you were claiming that "The Rams are bringing back the same starting QB from last season ('16), so the quarterbacking performance will still be poor."

How did that turn out, anyway...?? :P :roll: :?:

ram pathos...

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Sun May 24, 2020 5:28 am

As I see it, you have a 25 year old QB with a high winning percentage, early career stats comparable with the top players at his position, a good attitude, durable and the ability to make elite throws. There are 3 options:

1) Pay him early at top market price, in the knowledge that the contract will become excellent value as he reaches his prime years.

2) Wait to pay him to allow yourself to see if he can maintain his performance, however this could end up costing you more as contract sizes increase rapidly. Even if his performance dips (as Goff's did last season), you still have obviously flawed QBs like Tannehill's, Carr, etc commanding huge deals, so you still end up paying big money if you want to keep him.

3) You decide to move on from the QB with all the positive attributes listed above and pick up a journeyman who has very few of these attributes (that's why he's a journeyman) or a rookie that could potentially have none. All this to save money.

If you believe that high level QBs with the attributes listed above are easy to find, or irrelevant in building a top franchise, then you go for option 3.

I personally would go with option 1. In my opinion, we've seen enough from Goff to be confident that he can be a top 10 QB for the next 10 years and that is not easy to find. In addition, his flaws are fixable. Many QBs have never and will never play at the level we've seen Goff is able to achieve already. Just my opinion.



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Sun May 24, 2020 5:58 am

"JG 2018 - 32 TDS and 12 picks
JG 2019 - 22 TDS and 16 picks.

How is that the increase in picks is 0.5 % from 18 to 19 ? what kind of math is that ?
From 12 to 16 , by my math we are talking 33 % increase in the number of PICKS .
And when comparing TDS , in 2018 he threw about 43 % more tds when compared to 2019
. "


What kind of Math are you using? Please tell me that someone else manages your finances.

TD and INT percentages are based on the total number of attempts by a QB in a season.

Goff had 561 attempts in 2018 and 621 in 2019, so while the total NUMBER of INTs increased so did the TOTAL number of times he threw the ball, thus the small change in INT%.

Also TD% is a stat that is not completely under the control of a QB since depending on the field situation, it is wiser to run the ball for a TD as opposed to throwing a pass, something any Seahawks fan will tell you when they served up a Super Bowl victory to the Patriots with that colossally stupid play call on the 1-yard line.



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Sun May 24, 2020 7:51 am

Yorkshire Ram wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:28 am
As I see it, you have a 25 year old QB with a high winning percentage, early career stats comparable with the top players at his position, a good attitude, durable and the ability to make elite throws. There are 3 options:

1) Pay him early at top market price, in the knowledge that the contract will become excellent value as he reaches his prime years.

2) Wait to pay him to allow yourself to see if he can maintain his performance, however this could end up costing you more as contract sizes increase rapidly. Even if his performance dips (as Goff's did last season), you still have obviously flawed QBs like Tannehill's, Carr, etc commanding huge deals, so you still end up paying big money if you want to keep him.

3) You decide to move on from the QB with all the positive attributes listed above and pick up a journeyman who has very few of these attributes (that's why he's a journeyman) or a rookie that could potentially have none. All this to save money.

If you believe that high level QBs with the attributes listed above are easy to find, or irrelevant in building a top franchise, then you go for option 3.

I personally would go with option 1. In my opinion, we've seen enough from Goff to be confident that he can be a top 10 QB for the next 10 years and that is not easy to find. In addition, his flaws are fixable. Many QBs have never and will never play at the level we've seen Goff is able to achieve already. Just my opinion.
Unless Goff’s a top 5 QB (which he’s not), you try to draft the next Mahomes/Watson/Jackson and roll with that QB on a rookie deal thereby maximizing cap value.

There’s a reason the Chiefs drafted Mahomes when they had Alex Smith. There’s a reason the Ravens drafted Jackson when they had Flacco. There’s a reason the Packers drafted Jordan Love when they have Rodgers. There’s a reason the Patriots drafted Jimmy G when they still had Brady.

Every team realizes the best values in football is having the QB on a rookie deal, or having a Superstar QB. If you are in between, you’re most likely going nowhere.

Rams should have been developing a QB while seeing if Goff is a superstar. Once they realize he’s not, you let play out his deal and tag him for a year at the end. That’s all that was needed.



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Sun May 24, 2020 7:55 am

Truth wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:35 am
What you fail to comprehend is the wheels are still off the oline. It was ranked 31st last season and you’re bring back the same guys (1 of which is a near 40 year old LT).

I think lot of people would have more confidence in Goff if the Rams had signed guys like Trent Williams, Larry Warford, or a new Center. They didn’t.

The Rams o line didn’t suck in 2019 because they had good players hurt. It sucked because the starters they had sucked, then the backups that came in after the starters got hurt sucked even more. It’s a talent issue here. It’s not a durability issue. Brian Allen sucks at Center. Flat out. So does Blythe. When your Center position is terrible, and your LT should be retired, your line is going to
stink. The most important positions on the o line are C and LT. How do you expect the Rams o line group to be good with such weak links at the key spots?
well said. I have been saying this all along. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Fix the OL for christ sake.



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Sun May 24, 2020 8:04 am

Commish wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:18 am
Truth wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:35 am
What you fail to comprehend is the wheels are still off the oline. It was ranked 31st last season and you’re bring back the same guys (1 of which is a near 40 year old LT).

I think lot of people would have more confidence in Goff if the Rams had signed guys like Trent Williams, Larry Warford, or a new Center. They didn’t.

The Rams o line didn’t suck in 2019 because they had good players hurt. It sucked because the starters they had sucked, then the backups that came in after the starters got hurt sucked even more.
So that's why our team's "O" averaged 29+ points per game over its final five contests, two of them against playoff teams, hmmmm?

To you, that obviously doesn't seem like improvement, but to Sean McVay and his coaching staff, it certainly does.

They're clearly counting on young O-linemen (David Edwards, Bobby Evans, Austin Corbett, Joseph Noteboom, etc.) to perform more effectively due to the playing experience they gained last year, and on the Rams' offensive line having fewer injuries than in 2019--you're apparently counting on the opposite.

So I'm just trying to figure out who knows more about the Good Guys' playing personnel and NFL offensive football, you or McVay and his staff.

Undoubtedly, three years ago you were claiming that "The Rams are bringing back the same starting QB from last season ('16), so the quarterbacking performance will still be poor."

How did that turn out, anyway...?? :P :roll: :?:

ram pathos...

--The Commish
If you want to run your mouth with smart ass comments, I’ll shove those comments right up your ass.

Let me spell it out to you.

#1. The Rams couldn’t bring in any new o lineman because they have no cap space to bring in a quality guy they need. It’s has nothing to do with confidence in their own guys. They had no other options.

#2. There’s 1 big difference between 2017 and 2020. 2017 had a new coaching staff come in. 2020 has the same McVay. Do you think a new OC is going to cure the problems? I don’t.

Yes, I think most of the pundits that have picked the Rams to finish 3rd or last in the division are correct. It’s not just me that thinks that. I’m sure the pro analysts at PFF believe similarly. Do you think they know more football than Rams mgmt? I certainly do. Given how poorly the Rams have managed the cap, how could you not?

This is a team that went “all in” last year with the extensions to Goff, Gurley, Cooks, and trade for Ramsey? What did it get them? Nothing.

Whatever they did in 2017-2018...that’s great. That’s over now. They didn’t make the playoffs last year. And nobody is projecting them to make it this year either. They have limited draft picks and cap space.

Now if you want to blow homer smoke about this situation go ahead. I’m calling it like I see it.



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Sun May 24, 2020 8:56 am

Truth wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:51 am
Yorkshire Ram wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:28 am
As I see it, you have a 25 year old QB with a high winning percentage, early career stats comparable with the top players at his position, a good attitude, durable and the ability to make elite throws. There are 3 options:

1) Pay him early at top market price, in the knowledge that the contract will become excellent value as he reaches his prime years.

2) Wait to pay him to allow yourself to see if he can maintain his performance, however this could end up costing you more as contract sizes increase rapidly. Even if his performance dips (as Goff's did last season), you still have obviously flawed QBs like Tannehill's, Carr, etc commanding huge deals, so you still end up paying big money if you want to keep him.

3) You decide to move on from the QB with all the positive attributes listed above and pick up a journeyman who has very few of these attributes (that's why he's a journeyman) or a rookie that could potentially have none. All this to save money.

If you believe that high level QBs with the attributes listed above are easy to find, or irrelevant in building a top franchise, then you go for option 3.

I personally would go with option 1. In my opinion, we've seen enough from Goff to be confident that he can be a top 10 QB for the next 10 years and that is not easy to find. In addition, his flaws are fixable. Many QBs have never and will never play at the level we've seen Goff is able to achieve already. Just my opinion.
Unless Goff’s a top 5 QB (which he’s not), you try to draft the next Mahomes/Watson/Jackson and roll with that QB on a rookie deal thereby maximizing cap value.

There’s a reason the Chiefs drafted Mahomes when they had Alex Smith. There’s a reason the Ravens drafted Jackson when they had Flacco. There’s a reason the Packers drafted Jordan Love when they have Rodgers. There’s a reason the Patriots drafted Jimmy G when they still had Brady.

Every team realizes the best values in football is having the QB on a rookie deal, or having a Superstar QB. If you are in between, you’re most likely going nowhere.

Rams should have been developing a QB while seeing if Goff is a superstar. Once they realize he’s not, you let play out his deal and tag him for a year at the end. That’s all that was needed.
I don't necessarily agree with your logic here. Flacco wasn't elite and the Ravens made him the highest paid QB in the NFL at that time. The Chiefs took on Smith's big second contract with the Niners. Neither were on rookie deals when the teams eventually drafted their replacements.

Brady and Rodgers are obviously a class above Goff, but again, neither were anywhere near their rookie deals when Jimmy G and Love were drafted.

At some point you have to either cut ties, or pay your QB. That was my point.



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Sun May 24, 2020 9:25 am

Yorkshire Ram wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 8:56 am
Truth wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:51 am
Yorkshire Ram wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:28 am
As I see it, you have a 25 year old QB with a high winning percentage, early career stats comparable with the top players at his position, a good attitude, durable and the ability to make elite throws. There are 3 options:

1) Pay him early at top market price, in the knowledge that the contract will become excellent value as he reaches his prime years.

2) Wait to pay him to allow yourself to see if he can maintain his performance, however this could end up costing you more as contract sizes increase rapidly. Even if his performance dips (as Goff's did last season), you still have obviously flawed QBs like Tannehill's, Carr, etc commanding huge deals, so you still end up paying big money if you want to keep him.

3) You decide to move on from the QB with all the positive attributes listed above and pick up a journeyman who has very few of these attributes (that's why he's a journeyman) or a rookie that could potentially have none. All this to save money.

If you believe that high level QBs with the attributes listed above are easy to find, or irrelevant in building a top franchise, then you go for option 3.

I personally would go with option 1. In my opinion, we've seen enough from Goff to be confident that he can be a top 10 QB for the next 10 years and that is not easy to find. In addition, his flaws are fixable. Many QBs have never and will never play at the level we've seen Goff is able to achieve already. Just my opinion.
Unless Goff’s a top 5 QB (which he’s not), you try to draft the next Mahomes/Watson/Jackson and roll with that QB on a rookie deal thereby maximizing cap value.

There’s a reason the Chiefs drafted Mahomes when they had Alex Smith. There’s a reason the Ravens drafted Jackson when they had Flacco. There’s a reason the Packers drafted Jordan Love when they have Rodgers. There’s a reason the Patriots drafted Jimmy G when they still had Brady.

Every team realizes the best values in football is having the QB on a rookie deal, or having a Superstar QB. If you are in between, you’re most likely going nowhere.

Rams should have been developing a QB while seeing if Goff is a superstar. Once they realize he’s not, you let play out his deal and tag him for a year at the end. That’s all that was needed.
I don't necessarily agree with your logic here. Flacco wasn't elite and the Ravens made him the highest paid QB in the NFL at that time. The Chiefs took on Smith's big second contract with the Niners. Neither were on rookie deals when the teams eventually drafted their replacements.

Brady and Rodgers are obviously a class above Goff, but again, neither were anywhere near their rookie deals when Jimmy G and Love were drafted.

At some point you have to either cut ties, or pay your QB. That was my point.
Too logical. Doesn't fit the "NeverGoffers" narrative...


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Sun May 24, 2020 10:11 am

There’s a reason the Chiefs drafted Mahomes when they had Alex Smith. There’s a reason the Ravens drafted Jackson when they had Flacco. There’s a reason the Packers drafted Jordan Love when they have Rodgers. There’s a reason the Patriots drafted Jimmy G when they still had Brady.

Every team realizes the best values in football is having the QB on a rookie deal, or having a Superstar QB. If you are in between, you’re most likely going nowhere.

Rams should have been developing a QB while seeing if Goff is a superstar. Once they realize he’s not, you let play out his deal and tag him for a year at the end. That’s all that was needed.
No not every team "realizes" that. There are teams that know full well you can pay your qb and be in the playoffs. Look at the last 3 years of playoff teams. How many had qbs on rookie deals (15)? How many had signed veteran qbs (21)? So people know you can play if you sign your qb--this whole "rookie qbs only" thing is not a realistic view.

In terms of the qbs you list who were replaced-- Flacco? Smith? they were all much older vets who were not top qbs at least not when they looked to replace them. And Love for Rodgers is an age and "for the future" thing. The Patz traded Jimmy G away but when they drafted him Brady was a much older vet.

None of that applies to the Rams.

No team "develops a qb" while playing a young starter. And you don't need a superstar anyway--at a minimum you just need a solid experienced starter.

Rams are tied to Goff and they knew what they were getting into when they signed him. You may be wavering but they're not.

....
Last edited by zackn on Sun May 24, 2020 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Sun May 24, 2020 11:21 am

The reason the rams resigned Goff as early as they did is because they felt like they had a good quarterback. Doesnt matter how much crap anti-Goff fan girls think. Alot of us would have resigned Goff after leading us to the superbowl. To say you wouldn't means youre full of shit.



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Sun May 24, 2020 11:30 am

MissouriRamsFan wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:21 am
The reason the rams resigned Goff as early as they did is because they felt like they had a good quarterback. Doesnt matter how much crap anti-Goff fan girls think. Alot of us would have resigned Goff after leading us to the superbowl. To say you wouldn't means youre full of shit.
Full of Shit, or lacking knowledge, crybaby BULLSHIT. They're the 6 year old kids on the block who see the kid with the newest toys and bitchcry to their Mama's that they want it as well. They want Lamar Jackson, Deshaun Watson etc. Newsflash idiots, we HAVE a QB that can win us a Super Bowl! That's already proven...DESPITE the SB loss Jared Goff is BETTER THAN Jackson, Watson, Kyler, Wentz, Josh Allen Darnold.

Talk to me when Lamar Jackson makes a Super Bowl...or makes a Conference Championship Game....or better yet wins A Playoff Game. Same goes for Wentzy.


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Sun May 24, 2020 11:34 am

Mike Schad 1st Rd wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:30 am
MissouriRamsFan wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:21 am
The reason the rams resigned Goff as early as they did is because they felt like they had a good quarterback. Doesnt matter how much crap anti-Goff fan girls think. Alot of us would have resigned Goff after leading us to the superbowl. To say you wouldn't means youre full of shit.
Full of Shit, or lacking knowledge, crybaby BULLSHIT. They're the 6 year old kids on the block who see the kid with the newest toys and bitchcry to their Mama's that they want it as well. They want Lamar Jackson, Deshaun Watson etc. Newsflash idiots, we HAVE a QB that can win us a Super Bowl! That's already proven...DESPITE the SB loss Jared Goff is BETTER THAN Jackson, Watson, Kyler, Wentz, Josh Allen Darnold.

Talk to me when Lamar Jackson makes a Super Bowl...or makes a Conference Championship Game....or better yet wins A Playoff Game. Same goes for Wentzy.
Thank you! I'm glad these cornballs arent our gm. They'll draft a QB every two years,and all offensive linemen every year. The problem with those same cornball is they want instant success right away. And bitch and complain when things arent going THEIR way. Like,wtf? Lol. We have a qb. A damn good one at that. They just need to stfu,because despite how much they claim they know,they really dont know shit.



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Sun May 24, 2020 11:48 am

MissouriRamsFan wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:34 am
Mike Schad 1st Rd wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:30 am
MissouriRamsFan wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:21 am
The reason the rams resigned Goff as early as they did is because they felt like they had a good quarterback. Doesnt matter how much crap anti-Goff fan girls think. Alot of us would have resigned Goff after leading us to the superbowl. To say you wouldn't means youre full of shit.
Full of Shit, or lacking knowledge, crybaby BULLSHIT. They're the 6 year old kids on the block who see the kid with the newest toys and bitchcry to their Mama's that they want it as well. They want Lamar Jackson, Deshaun Watson etc. Newsflash idiots, we HAVE a QB that can win us a Super Bowl! That's already proven...DESPITE the SB loss Jared Goff is BETTER THAN Jackson, Watson, Kyler, Wentz, Josh Allen Darnold.

Talk to me when Lamar Jackson makes a Super Bowl...or makes a Conference Championship Game....or better yet wins A Playoff Game. Same goes for Wentzy.
Thank you! I'm glad these cornballs arent our gm. They'll draft a QB every two years,and all offensive linemen every year. The problem with those same cornball is they want instant success right away. And bitch and complain when things arent going THEIR way. Like,wtf? Lol. We have a qb. A damn good one at that. They just need to stfu,because despite how much they claim they know,they really dont know shit.
These same Assholes would have been complaining about wanting a new QB after Peyton Manning's first 4 years in, Guaranteed


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Sun May 24, 2020 12:17 pm

Mike Schad 1st Rd wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:48 am
MissouriRamsFan wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:34 am
Mike Schad 1st Rd wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:30 am


Full of Shit, or lacking knowledge, crybaby BULLSHIT. They're the 6 year old kids on the block who see the kid with the newest toys and bitchcry to their Mama's that they want it as well. They want Lamar Jackson, Deshaun Watson etc. Newsflash idiots, we HAVE a QB that can win us a Super Bowl! That's already proven...DESPITE the SB loss Jared Goff is BETTER THAN Jackson, Watson, Kyler, Wentz, Josh Allen Darnold.

Talk to me when Lamar Jackson makes a Super Bowl...or makes a Conference Championship Game....or better yet wins A Playoff Game. Same goes for Wentzy.
Thank you! I'm glad these cornballs arent our gm. They'll draft a QB every two years,and all offensive linemen every year. The problem with those same cornball is they want instant success right away. And bitch and complain when things arent going THEIR way. Like,wtf? Lol. We have a qb. A damn good one at that. They just need to stfu,because despite how much they claim they know,they really dont know shit.
These same Assholes would have been complaining about wanting a new QB after Peyton Manning's first 4 years in, Guaranteed
Mannings first year,,, record 3-13,,, 26TD and 28 INT
Wow,,, he sucks ass.. he gave up 28 Turnovers and I'm not even counting his fumbles

His Forth year,,, record 6-10 26 TD and 23 INT
He really sucks ass,,, wholly shit he gave up another 23 Turnovers,,, He is regressing after two playoff season....

He can't run, he as a weak arm...
He Suck Ass, how the fuck did he make it in the HOF


My eyes are my judge,,, I can see a shitting QB a mile away

These fucking arm chair GM/HC are morons,,, they're fucking clueless :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by 69RamFan on Sun May 24, 2020 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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