Afghanistan… Can it get any worse!?

Humor, Politics, News and Other Topics NOT Related to Football.
User avatar
UplandRam
Site Admin
Posts: 2225
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:19 am
Location: Glendora, CA
Has thanked: 235 times
Been thanked: 143 times
Contact:

Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:55 pm


User avatar
HellRam
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5875
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:17 pm
Has thanked: 69 times
Been thanked: 108 times
Contact:

Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:44 pm

Just wait till we dub the Taliban a legitimate government and throw them aide.

Rams since '66
Hall of Famer
Posts: 1690
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:07 pm
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 139 times
Contact:

Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:48 pm

No problems with Zuck and Gates' planes getting the clearance though. With the socket puppet show, the old axioms "It's not who you know..." and "money talks...." are proudly held to.

User avatar
HighDesertRam
Hall of Famer
Posts: 564
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:59 am
Location: Reno, NV
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Contact:

Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:04 am

HellRam wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:44 pm
Just wait till we dub the Taliban a legitimate government and throw them aide.
Billions of dollars in military equipment was a good down payment..

ocram23
Hall of Famer
Posts: 10481
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:12 pm
Has thanked: 113 times
Been thanked: 109 times
Contact:

Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:03 am

so tired of this incompetence. one positive thing across this country is the utter disdain for Biden. College football game chants " F Biden " to flags flying on boats in Newport Beach " F Biden "
Keep this going and maybe just maybe we can get this yahoo out of office.

Rams since '66
Hall of Famer
Posts: 1690
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:07 pm
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 139 times
Contact:

Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:22 am

The problem for the dems is that the sock puppet really is the best that they have. Kamala's polls are further in the tank than his. They need to find another Obo or someone who actually sounds competent to step in as VP if they dump the s.p. and then front for Kamala. Their best bet is probably to find a Hollywood celeb who played a smart President or at least Black Panther or Wonder Woman. Then again, maybe just settle for someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

User avatar
HellRam
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5875
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:17 pm
Has thanked: 69 times
Been thanked: 108 times
Contact:

Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:55 pm

HighDesertRam wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:04 am
HellRam wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:44 pm
Just wait till we dub the Taliban a legitimate government and throw them aide.
Billions of dollars in military equipment was a good down payment..
Indeed it was. Gotta give it to the Dems their plans are being executed rather well! Incompetence or perfection? I'd say perfection!

Really though, we've seen this before when we aided the Syrian rebel in which many turned out to be ISIS. This is just on a whole other level but it is most certainly nothing new.

Rams since '66
Hall of Famer
Posts: 1690
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:07 pm
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 139 times
Contact:

Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:08 pm

HellRam wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:55 pm
HighDesertRam wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:04 am
HellRam wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:44 pm
Just wait till we dub the Taliban a legitimate government and throw them aide.
Billions of dollars in military equipment was a good down payment..
Indeed it was. Gotta give it to the Dems their plans are being executed rather well! Incompetence or perfection? I'd say perfection!

Really though, we've seen this before when we aided the Syrian rebel in which many turned out to be ISIS. This is just on a whole other level but it is most certainly nothing new.
The good news is we should have a whole new generation of more sophisticated and pricey gear to give to the next quasi terrorist group that we need to support in order to counter the terrorist groups who wind up with this gear.

User avatar
HellRam
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5875
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:17 pm
Has thanked: 69 times
Been thanked: 108 times
Contact:

Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:26 pm

Rams since '66 wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:08 pm
HellRam wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:55 pm
HighDesertRam wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:04 am

Billions of dollars in military equipment was a good down payment..
Indeed it was. Gotta give it to the Dems their plans are being executed rather well! Incompetence or perfection? I'd say perfection!

Really though, we've seen this before when we aided the Syrian rebel in which many turned out to be ISIS. This is just on a whole other level but it is most certainly nothing new.
The good news is we should have a whole new generation of more sophisticated and pricey gear to give to the next quasi terrorist group that we need to support in order to counter the terrorist groups who wind up with this gear.
Well......

Rams since '66
Hall of Famer
Posts: 1690
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:07 pm
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 139 times
Contact:

Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:04 am

In case anyone thought this was just sarcasm
The good news is we should have a whole new generation of more sophisticated and pricey gear to give to the next quasi terrorist group that we need to support in order to counter the terrorist groups who wind up with this gear.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking to the BBC, Graham said
“Whether you like Trump or not, whether you believe it’s Trump’s fault or Biden’s fault, here’s where we’re at as a world: The Taliban are not reformed, they’re not new,” Graham said. “They have a view of the world out of sync with modern times. They’re going to impose a lifestyle on the Afghan people that I think is going to make us all sick to our stomach.”
Graham went on to assert, in no uncertain terms, that the US will be going back to Afghanistan.
“But most importantly, they’re going to give safe haven to Al Qaeda who has ambitions to drive us out of the Mid East at large and attack us because of our way of life,” he continued. “We will be going back into Afghanistan as we went back into Iraq and Syria.”
“Hang on,” host Stephen Sackur interrupted. “You seriously think the United States will once again, in the foreseeable future, put troops back into Afghanistan?”
The senator replied “We’ll have to. We’ll have to. Because the threat will be so large, It will be a cauldron for radical Islamic behavior.”

Actually it is Graham who makes me sick to my stomach. He is just as cancerous to this country as Pelosi, AOC or any of the democrats. A true conservative for about six months out of every six years and the poster boy for why primaries are so critical to participate in.

ocram23
Hall of Famer
Posts: 10481
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:12 pm
Has thanked: 113 times
Been thanked: 109 times
Contact:

Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:24 am

Rams since '66 wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:04 am
In case anyone thought this was just sarcasm
The good news is we should have a whole new generation of more sophisticated and pricey gear to give to the next quasi terrorist group that we need to support in order to counter the terrorist groups who wind up with this gear.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking to the BBC, Graham said
“Whether you like Trump or not, whether you believe it’s Trump’s fault or Biden’s fault, here’s where we’re at as a world: The Taliban are not reformed, they’re not new,” Graham said. “They have a view of the world out of sync with modern times. They’re going to impose a lifestyle on the Afghan people that I think is going to make us all sick to our stomach.”
Graham went on to assert, in no uncertain terms, that the US will be going back to Afghanistan.
“But most importantly, they’re going to give safe haven to Al Qaeda who has ambitions to drive us out of the Mid East at large and attack us because of our way of life,” he continued. “We will be going back into Afghanistan as we went back into Iraq and Syria.”
“Hang on,” host Stephen Sackur interrupted. “You seriously think the United States will once again, in the foreseeable future, put troops back into Afghanistan?”
The senator replied “We’ll have to. We’ll have to. Because the threat will be so large, It will be a cauldron for radical Islamic behavior.”

Actually it is Graham who makes me sick to my stomach. He is just as cancerous to this country as Pelosi, AOC or any of the democrats. A true conservative for about six months out of every six years and the poster boy for why primaries are so critical to participate in.
we will let civil war go on for a while but I do agree with Graham we will have to go back in. if we don't then it will be Biden executing drone strikes just like Obama did. Then he can say we didn't go back yet we are bombing the hell out of them. either way we will have to get assets back on the ground and monitor this all for a while.

User avatar
flv
Veteran
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:31 am
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 23 times
Contact:

Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:48 am

A deal was signed in February 2020 that the US would be out of Afghanistan by April 2021. Still being there in August 2021 was the problem.

Afghanistan isn't a county by most people's definition. It's a large area with no national borders, inhabited by numerous tribes, each with their own beliefs and agendas. No government is going to unite them all in peace time. No government is going to be able to keep worse people than the Taliban out without very significant financial and military support from an outside source.

Russia and the US don't want to put any more resources into Afghanistan. Either China or Iran will expand their influence or ISIS will gain control of the poppy fields. Either way from a Western perspective the situation is going to get worse over the next 2-3 years.

User avatar
Rampager66
Hall of Famer
Posts: 10596
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:46 pm
Has thanked: 300 times
Been thanked: 107 times
Contact:

Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:53 am

flv wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:48 am
A deal was signed in February 2020 that the US would be out of Afghanistan by April 2021. Still being there in August 2021 was the problem.

Afghanistan isn't a county by most people's definition. It's a large area with no national borders, inhabited by numerous tribes, each with their own beliefs and agendas. No government is going to unite them all in peace time. No government is going to be able to keep worse people than the Taliban out without very significant financial and military support from an outside source.

Russia and the US don't want to put any more resources into Afghanistan. Either China or Iran will expand their influence or ISIS will gain control of the poppy fields. Either way from a Western perspective the situation is going to get worse over the next 2-3 years.
From a Western perspective, wtf can we do w/o leadership? The current crop of puppets are all on side with it... It's up to the people, and most are afraid of losing what they have individually and do nothing but talk.

Rammer
Hall of Famer
Posts: 4184
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:17 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 44 times
Contact:

Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:57 am

flv wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:48 am
A deal was signed in February 2020 that the US would be out of Afghanistan by April 2021. Still being there in August 2021 was the problem.

Afghanistan isn't a county by most people's definition. It's a large area with no national borders, inhabited by numerous tribes, each with their own beliefs and agendas. No government is going to unite them all in peace time. No government is going to be able to keep worse people than the Taliban out without very significant financial and military support from an outside source.

Russia and the US don't want to put any more resources into Afghanistan. Either China or Iran will expand their influence or ISIS will gain control of the poppy fields. Either way from a Western perspective the situation is going to get worse over the next 2-3 years.

Imo, it's how left Afghanistan that was the problem. Not when we left. For starters, we should have operated from our own secure facilities, instead of the international airport. Second, we should have made sure that we didn't let the weapons fall into the taliban's hands. I don't understand why we do not disable or destroy helicopters and weapon systems that fall into the wrong hands. These systems are loaded with technology, it shouldn't be that hard to do.

Rams since '66
Hall of Famer
Posts: 1690
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:07 pm
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 139 times
Contact:

Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:17 am

Rammer wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:57 am
flv wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:48 am
A deal was signed in February 2020 that the US would be out of Afghanistan by April 2021. Still being there in August 2021 was the problem.

Afghanistan isn't a county by most people's definition. It's a large area with no national borders, inhabited by numerous tribes, each with their own beliefs and agendas. No government is going to unite them all in peace time. No government is going to be able to keep worse people than the Taliban out without very significant financial and military support from an outside source.

Russia and the US don't want to put any more resources into Afghanistan. Either China or Iran will expand their influence or ISIS will gain control of the poppy fields. Either way from a Western perspective the situation is going to get worse over the next 2-3 years.

Imo, it's how left Afghanistan that was the problem. Not when we left. For starters, we should have operated from our own secure facilities, instead of the international airport. Second, we should have made sure that we didn't let the weapons fall into the taliban's hands. I don't understand why we do not disable or destroy helicopters and weapon systems that fall into the wrong hands. These systems are loaded with technology, it shouldn't be that hard to do.
Somebody got paid.

Rams since '66
Hall of Famer
Posts: 1690
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:07 pm
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 139 times
Contact:

Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:26 am

flv wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:48 am
A deal was signed in February 2020 that the US would be out of Afghanistan by April 2021. Still being there in August 2021 was the problem.

Afghanistan isn't a county by most people's definition. It's a large area with no national borders, inhabited by numerous tribes, each with their own beliefs and agendas. No government is going to unite them all in peace time. No government is going to be able to keep worse people than the Taliban out without very significant financial and military support from an outside source.

Russia and the US don't want to put any more resources into Afghanistan. Either China or Iran will expand their influence or ISIS will gain control of the poppy fields. Either way from a Western perspective the situation is going to get worse over the next 2-3 years.
There is no benefit for us to be there. Unfortunately, there is a large cadre from both parties who do want us there or really anywhere where we can drain or resources and they can take their cut. Our government is too incompetent and corrupt to accomplish anything positive from being over there anyway.
1. The U.S. should not be occupiers of any country.
2. If we do occupy a country, we should do it right. Occupation does not mean leaving our troops exposed to needlessly being killed, to give the occupied country billions of dollars in exchange for hating us and ultimately surrendering to them from a position of strength.

ocram23
Hall of Famer
Posts: 10481
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:12 pm
Has thanked: 113 times
Been thanked: 109 times
Contact:

Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:22 am

don't forget about the pallets of money we left behind as well. we will be back there in some capacity in the next 3 years IMO. place is a powder keg waiting to go off

Rams since '66
Hall of Famer
Posts: 1690
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:07 pm
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 139 times
Contact:

Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:37 am

ocram23 wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:22 am
don't forget about the pallets of money we left behind as well. we will be back there in some capacity in the next 3 years IMO. place is a powder keg waiting to go off
We probably will. But for no good reason.

User avatar
flv
Veteran
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:31 am
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 23 times
Contact:

Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:08 pm

Rammer wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:57 am
Imo, it's how left Afghanistan that was the problem. Not when we left. For starters, we should have operated from our own secure facilities, instead of the international airport. Second, we should have made sure that we didn't let the weapons fall into the taliban's hands. I don't understand why we do not disable or destroy helicopters and weapon systems that fall into the wrong hands. These systems are loaded with technology, it shouldn't be that hard to do.
How the US left was a problem and that problem stems from not being ready to depart by the end of February 2021. You always aim to have things done early so there's time to deal with unexpected issues. Both US presidents and the US military are at fault for that. Evacuations are successful when civilians and equipment come out first and military personnel come out last. The impression given by European media is that the US cares a lot about its troops and a lot less about everyone/everything else. That may be false but getting the troops out first and then everything collapsing wasn't a surprise.

If the US gives equipment to a foreign government that equipment ceases to be US property. If the foreign government falls the equipment becomes the property of the new government. This is a hard lesson to learn. Most of the helicopters and weapons systems were tampered with so as to make them unusable. That was the best that could be done at short notice. Getting equipment in and out of Afghanistan is logistically very difficult. Iran is to the West, Russia is to the North, and China is to the East. None of those countries is going to allow the US to fly military aircraft through their airspace. There is a narrow corridor to the North East but that means flying through Turkmenistan and then Azerbaijan to get to Turkey. Those countries have long-term relationships with Iran and Russia which they're not going to jeopardise just because it temporarily suits the US. The US has to fly everything out South over Pakistan just to get to the Indian Ocean so it can then get to Saudi Arabia. It's a long way round. If you don't have friendly relationships with countries in the vicinity it's a geographical nightmare.

User avatar
UplandRam
Site Admin
Posts: 2225
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:19 am
Location: Glendora, CA
Has thanked: 235 times
Been thanked: 143 times
Contact:

Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:27 pm


User avatar
flv
Veteran
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:31 am
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 23 times
Contact:

Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:42 pm

UplandRam wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:27 pm
Yeah, it can get worse.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/state- ... aked-email
The current US administration has done a poor job but I doubt if it would have been significantly better under most US governments of the last 50 years, or under governments of the potential presidential candidates that were defeated. An evacuation so soon after a change of leadership was a disaster waiting to happen. Retreat is the most difficult military manoeuvre to orchestrate and most countries only ever think about advancing. Afghanistan is a bad situation that will probably get much worse.

Rams since '66
Hall of Famer
Posts: 1690
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:07 pm
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 139 times
Contact:

Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:33 pm

UplandRam wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:27 pm
Yeah, it can get worse.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/state- ... aked-email
This administration is so entitled and so arrogant that they absolutely believe they can step on American citizens and openly lie about it with no consequences. I think they believe that they have no boundaries. And sadly they may be right.

Rams since '66
Hall of Famer
Posts: 1690
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:07 pm
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 139 times
Contact:

Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:46 pm

flv wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:42 pm
UplandRam wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:27 pm
Yeah, it can get worse.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/state- ... aked-email
The current US administration has done a poor job but I doubt if it would have been significantly better under most US governments of the last 50 years, or under governments of the potential presidential candidates that were defeated. An evacuation so soon after a change of leadership was a disaster waiting to happen. Retreat is the most difficult military manoeuvre to orchestrate and most countries only ever think about advancing. Afghanistan is a bad situation that will probably get much worse.
Your argument is specious at best. The U.S. was operating in Afghanistan from a position of strength with no hard time limits to withdraw. The sock puppet was in position to withdraw on any schedule his handlers deemed appropriate. They made the decision based on the desire for a victory parade on the 9/11 twenty year anniversary, not on sound military policy. This is 100% on the sock puppet. Falling back on the assumption that no one else would've handled it better is a poor argument.

Rams since '66
Hall of Famer
Posts: 1690
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:07 pm
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 139 times
Contact:

Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:05 pm

flv wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:08 pm
Rammer wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:57 am
Imo, it's how left Afghanistan that was the problem. Not when we left. For starters, we should have operated from our own secure facilities, instead of the international airport. Second, we should have made sure that we didn't let the weapons fall into the taliban's hands. I don't understand why we do not disable or destroy helicopters and weapon systems that fall into the wrong hands. These systems are loaded with technology, it shouldn't be that hard to do.
How the US left was a problem and that problem stems from not being ready to depart by the end of February 2021. You always aim to have things done early so there's time to deal with unexpected issues. Both US presidents and the US military are at fault for that. Evacuations are successful when civilians and equipment come out first and military personnel come out last. The impression given by European media is that the US cares a lot about its troops and a lot less about everyone/everything else. That may be false but getting the troops out first and then everything collapsing wasn't a surprise.

If the US gives equipment to a foreign government that equipment ceases to be US property. If the foreign government falls the equipment becomes the property of the new government. This is a hard lesson to learn. Most of the helicopters and weapons systems were tampered with so as to make them unusable. That was the best that could be done at short notice. Getting equipment in and out of Afghanistan is logistically very difficult. Iran is to the West, Russia is to the North, and China is to the East. None of those countries is going to allow the US to fly military aircraft through their airspace. There is a narrow corridor to the North East but that means flying through Turkmenistan and then Azerbaijan to get to Turkey. Those countries have long-term relationships with Iran and Russia which they're not going to jeopardise just because it temporarily suits the US. The US has to fly everything out South over Pakistan just to get to the Indian Ocean so it can then get to Saudi Arabia. It's a long way round. If you don't have friendly relationships with countries in the vicinity it's a geographical nightmare.
Can we get off the Trump blame train? If Trump had remained in office; if Trump had left the military position in disarray you'd have a point. But the sock puppet was installed, he has full authority, the congress and the media. He inherited a strong military position. He could've had his military leaders create any withdrawal plan and it would've been hailed as brilliant by his political lackeys and his media lapdogs. Face it. HE is the President. HE failed.

ocram23
Hall of Famer
Posts: 10481
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:12 pm
Has thanked: 113 times
Been thanked: 109 times
Contact:

Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:21 pm

anyone who says things would not have been different with any other president doesn't understand foreign policy. say what you want about Trump but he would never have let this go down the way it did. this was a complete dereliction of duty as the commander and chief. he has been a politician for 50 yrs and has been on the wrong side on the majority of policies throughout the years.
He failed and I am tired of listening to the Liberal media make excuses for this yahoo

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests